Moscow Patriarchate Ordains Deacon For ROCOR

[Priest Siluan]

This would be the same "argument" to have OCA churches in Australia and Mexico - english speaking churches for Americans residing there.

In the case of Mexico, They (Clergy and layman) are natives (Mexican Indians) speaking Spanish.

[Priest Siluan]

There used to be quite an interesting website for the patriarchal parishes in the USA, but it is now down and a new one is under permanent, it seems, construction. There is, however, a list at:

http://www.3saints.com/patr_parishes.html

It would be interesting to compare the 1970 situation to today's!

I had forgotten - there is also Mercy House in NYC, which left ROCOR a few years ago.

I am confused, just two or three years ago this list was smaller and with less clergymen.

[хорист]

There used to be quite an interesting website for the patriarchal parishes in the USA, but it is now down and a new one is under permanent, it seems, construction. There is, however, a list at:

http://www.3saints.com/patr_parishes.html

It would be interesting to compare the 1970 situation to today's!

I had forgotten - there is also Mercy House in NYC, which left ROCOR a few years ago.

I am confused, just two or three years ago this list was smaller and with less clergymen.

Actually, Fr. Siluan, I have been watching their list for years now and I don't think there is any significant upswing in new parishes; maybe new clerics - but, after all, the MP is supposed to be able to support and maintain their parishes.

I have heard, though, from OCA contacts where I am that when the MP moved to open the Toronto parish it was a very hard thing to take for the OCA, especially as it was on the grounds that people needed to have services in their own tongue (and the OCA was trying to do that). Now the MP parishioners are more open, saying it is because they wish to be under the cowl, and are campaigning to build a new cathedral.

The upshot is that in Toronto the OCA has better relations with ROCOR than with the MP.

BTW, the site I mentioned (under construction) used to have a very detailed listing showing the history of each parish including the date it was established, the calendar it used, language of services, etc. That would have been a good way to double-check easily. Unfortunately it is no longer available in that form.

[Kollyvas]

In general, over the the last 36 years, the amount of MP parishes and clergy in N America has decreased, not increased. The last test of the MP's commitment to the OCA, its N American diocese, was experienced in the late nineties, early years of this century, when the hermanites sought en masse to be received under the direct rule of the MP and that was denied. In England, however, the amount of MP parishes and missions has multiplied considerably. Again, there are no real differences here, but essentially "provisional canonical territories" that will soon disappear. ROCOR is history. The OCA as we know it likewise. The MP is being renewed. That is the reality to come to terms with...
R

[Priest Siluan]

Probably what confused to my it was the increase in the quantity of clergymen, but however I believe that the MP is being quite aggressive in "expansionary politics" and it is on whole world.

[хорист]

In general, over the the last 36 years, the amount of MP parishes and clergy in N America has decreased, not increased. The last test of the MP's commitment to the OCA, its N American diocese, was experienced in the late nineties, early years of this century, when the hermanites sought en masse to be received under the direct rule of the MP and that was denied. In England, however, the amount of MP parishes and missions has multiplied considerably. Again, there are no real differences here, but essentially "provisional canonical territories" that will soon disappear. ROCOR is history. The OCA as we know it likewise. The MP is being renewed. That is the reality to come to terms with...
R

Hello,

Can you clarify what you mean when you write, "Again, there are no real differences here, but essentially "provisional canonical territories" that will soon disappear." What will happen next? I know the MP is building new churches all over the globe (e.,g, Rotterdam, Johhanesburg, Rome, the Antarctic!) and this direction is unstoppable, it seems ...

Thanks!

[Kollyvas]

While I am by no means an "insider," I can make educated guesses as to the direction of the MP Abroad, being somewhat rerooted in its soil. I spoke earlier in this thread and on others on the direction of MP diasporan administrations becoming "self-governing autonomous dioceses"--that is most probably what will eventually emerge in N America. What was proposed for the Russian jurisdictions in Europe I use as my barometer. In 1976, the OCA boasted over 1000000 members and growing. Today it is at near 400000. 60% of the membership has been lost! That is a missionary catastrophe and a clear sign of the impropriety and unripeness of "autocephaly." Almost everyone sees that. Such a demographic trend means extinction by 2070. It, Fr. Schmemann's and the uniate nikodim's "autocephaly," is over. Now coupling the MP and ROCOR representations with the current OCA will bring the numbers back over 500000, but that number has to be evangelistic and dynamic--sadly, at this juncture, that's a bleak prospect. So consolidation will have to occur. Thereafter prayer and hope for renewal...None of these bodies can survive alone and disunited into the future. This, among many other reasons, will propel unification and the end of "jurisdictional boundaries" among these bodies. The reality of "overlapping congregations" makes this almost a natural occurence.
R