Moscow Patriarchate Ordains Deacon For ROCOR

[Priest Siluan]

It would be sad to see to ROCOR-L like the "Russian Diocese" of the OCA, but this would not be only sad, but reality if also reaffirms the Tomos of Autocephaly of OCA (that which would not be strange and it would be coherent). Another option for ROCOR would be to being "podvorye" parishes of the MP- Maybe this we won't see it quickly after the "Uniya" but little by little

[хорист]

Of course in the tome of autocephaly the MP promised not to build any more churches in America, leaving it all to the OCA. Then they had 9 churches I believe and now they have over 30. So since the MP does not follow the promises of autocephaly, having the ROCOR churches be MP rather than OCA is not inconceivable.

I am no big MP fan, but that is highly inaccurate and misleading. Including the Canadian parishes there were well over 50. See the tomos at
http://oca.org/DOCtomos.asp?SID=12

The only ones I know that have been added since are the so-called "representation" parish in Toronto, technically an OCA parish, and the remnant of the church parish they tried to take from ROCOR in Ottawa but subsequently lost in a court case (just a few die-hards left with the MP there). I believe there is also an abandoned NJ church they are restoring as a dependency of the Three Saints parish in Garfield. Otherwise, where have they opened churches?

[Chrysostomos]

I have discussed this issue on this board before.

I have to caution us all in how we approach the issue of OCA "autocephaly": I would wager we will all be surprised to see how the "tomos" becomes radically redefined.

The "talk" here is that the MP could very well rescind the "tomos". Therefore, making the reunion acceptible. No worry about additional churches, etc. Also, it would pave the way for the two, ROCOR and OCA to become one.

This is something I personally pray for. Then the OCA would go back on the "Old Calendar".

As I said before, if tommorrow Bishop Tikhon came out and said that we are going back to the "Old Calendar" I honestly believe you would not have any parishioners upset about it. At least within the Diocese of the West.

I think we would feel more in Union with one another that way.

This would be a good move.

[尼古拉前执事]

Hmm, thank you for this correction. I seem to have seen an incorrect list of parishes that stayed MP after the Tomos. Do you know how many of these parishes are still with the MP today?

[Chrysostomos]

BTW what do you thinbk of the OCA having churches outside of the Americas (such as Australlia) and in Mexico

How is that any different than having Antiochian, Greek, Ukrainian, Jerusalem, on and on here in America?

Of course, the excuse is to say that they are ministering to "their" respective people/race. In the language of their mother tongue.

This would be the same "argument" to have OCA churches in Australia and Mexico - english speaking churches for Americans residing there.

I disagree with that mindset personally.

If you come to America, and you plan on living here, then learn the language, and have Orthodox Services in English.

If I were to move to Russia, I would learn the language, and I'd have to learn Slavonic in this example as well. I wouldn't want Russia to suffer the "jurisdictionalism" that America has. How many more are being planted in the name of Truth? I mean, how many "True" Churches and splinter groups will we have here in America?

Sad, instead of unity, division.

Lord have mercy upon us and the Church of Christ!

[Kollyvas]

Evlogeite.

I would not be hasty in insisting on a return to the Patristic Calendar for all OCA parishes, as the strain may indeed provoke schisms and the departure of noteable and great member dioceses, viz. the Romanians. There are some people who really do want the new calendar, and by use of economy should be allowed to follow it; however, I think such parishes/missions/etc. should petition to do so once the Bishops do return to the Church Calendar. Moreover, the new structure should continue to strive for diasporan unity, and that includes the reintegration of jurisdictions which were once part of the Russian American diocese of North America, viz. the Antiochians, Serbs, etc. The resulting structure should be broad enough yet thoroughly Orthodox & Traditional to eventually reincorporate them. What we should eventually witness is a dichotomy in diasporan mission and witness between self-governing dioceses aligned with the MP as opposed to those ruled by the ep.

I have for a long time not regarded the "divisions" between the Russians, for it has been my general experience throughout this country that "overlapping congregations" are the order of the day. De facto, autocephaly never existed and was not really ever recognized except by those obsessed with the Parisian mentalite and/or converts who never knew anything but those talking points.

Ethnicities bring with them certain ways of "being Orthodox" which are beneficial as reference and ontological models for a missionary territory in transition toward local church--they flavour and come to be the basis of an American, etc. Orthodoxy and Orthodox ontology. There is a ministry for every people, and if some need services in their mother tongues, the Church must be there for them. And if some should like of their own accord and by merit of their general understanding to use liturgical languages other than English, that should be up to their respective congregations.

As an aside, I know of a few parishes under +Bishop Mercurius, some of which I attended as a youth and served in as an altar boy. Since we live in the Phoenix area, we do not have access to an MP parish, unfortunately. The nearest one is in San Diego and we do plan to visit. For now, we are perfectly content with the SCOBA complement of Orthodox parishes in the area, our mission, and the Elder's monastery...

In the LOVe of Christ,
Rostislav

[хорист]

Hmm, thank you for this correction. I seem to have seen an incorrect list of parishes that stayed MP after the Tomos. Do you know how many of these parishes are still with the MP today?

There used to be quite an interesting website for the patriarchal parishes in the USA, but it is now down and a new one is under permanent, it seems, construction. There is, however, a list at:

http://www.3saints.com/patr_parishes.html

It would be interesting to compare the 1970 situation to today's!

I had forgotten - there is also Mercy House in NYC, which left ROCOR a few years ago.