Ownership of ROCOR parishes

[Jean-Serge]

I would like to know who is the owner of the many ROCOR parishes : is it the Synod? Or the parishioners? It could be a key element in May 2006.

[尼古拉前执事]

Generally it is the synod that owns the temples, although there may be some cases where a mortgaged temple is in the name of the parish council or priest.

[Chrysostomos]

I think the 'key element" is the answer to whom really does own the ROCOR parishes, and it does have important ramifications.

Being OCA, this is one read of the situation.....

When the OCA was granted autocephalcy from the Russian Orthodox Church, it was supposidly stated that the Russian Orthodox Church could not have any more churches in the U.S., after this was granted.

Now, fast forward to today. If reunification is granted, and the two, ROCOR and MP unite, then the MP technically would have more churches in the U.S. than allowed.

So, how does this get resolved?

1. MP withdraws autocephalcy, and the OCA can merge with the newly formed ROCOR/MP. OCA goes "old calendar".

2. MP and ROCOR re-establish unity and MP recognizes ROCOR authocephalcy. We then have MP and ROCOR communing, and OCA by it's recognized relationship with MP, would also be "in communion" with ROCOR. While conditions would be ripe for OCA to merge with ROCOR, via OCA becoming "old calendar" once again.

3. MP and ROCOR unite, one church, and OCA - tough luck.

Speaking personally, I pray for unity between the ROCOR/MP. If indeed that takes place, I would pray that the OCA would consider uniting with the newly united church, which would be conditioned on its becoming old calendar again. Note: I really see no problem with any OCA parish putting up a protest in the OCA if tommorrow it's metropolitan and bishops said that we were going back to the "old calendar". Speaking only of those individuals on the "west coast", it would be fine with us!

Through the prayers of the holy fathers, Lord Jesus Christ our God, have mercy upon us and save us![/i]

[Kollyvas]

Evlogeite.

I don't think that ROCOR really has a place in direct unity with the MP. They really are two different churches. But I do think that diasporan unity is a must. ROCOR at one time did have new calendar dioceses, and the OCA situation must be accomodated in that regard--after all, they do have non-Russian new calendar dioceses such as the Romanian who should be respected. Yes, the Old Calendar should be restored, but in all due charity and patience to avoid schism. Moreover, the autocephaly was a fiction and should be recognized as such. Now, self-governing autonomy is very much needed, and a united diasporan Russian mission should direct its own affairs. Yes, the Tomos should be rescinded, BUT the resulting diasporan body should have its canonical territory expanded and its primate elevated to the old Syrian level of "Katholikos," implying a Patriarchate in the making.

In the LOVE of Christ,
Rostislav

[Jean-Serge]

The ownership of a parish is a key element in those church issues. Generally, the one who owns the parish will also owns the faithful. Indeed, even if the faithfuls disagree with the owner(s), they will not leave because they don't want to lose their comfort of having a parish...

So if most buildings belongs to the synod, I really do not imagine huge portions of ROCOR faithfuls leaving even if they disagree...

[Priest Siluan]

The ownership of a parish is a key element in those church issues. Generally, the one who owns the parish will also owns the faithful. Indeed, even if the faithfuls disagree with the owner(s), they will not leave because they don't want to lose their comfort of having a parish...

So if most buildings belongs to the synod, I really do not imagine huge portions of ROCOR faithfuls leaving even if they disagree...

You are right, this is one of the main problems, more even in countries as Argentina, where it is more important the "recognition" or the "status" before the State and the (Roman Catholic) Society than the truth. Probably this quality of the Latin idiosincracy is quite adopted by ROCOR people in this countries, this quality should also be always fed with things materials and external although one should pay them with the price of denying the truth.

In no way I am trying to judge anyone (less even in period of Great Lent) on the contrary I believe that their position is not that I would want to be. I pray so that they can find the correct solution according to the will of God and not to will and vanity of men.

[joasia]

Generally, the one who owns the parish will also owns the faithful. Indeed, even if the faithfuls disagree with the owner(s), they will not leave because they don't want to lose their comfort of having a parish...

Well, you really don't have a place to make such a judgement. And that's what it is...a judgement. You've gone from bashing the bishops to bashing the faithful. Who are you to know the hearts of the faithful??

So if most buildings belongs to the synod, I really do not imagine huge portions of ROCOR faithfuls leaving even if they disagree...

And you make predictions too. Quite an arrogant attitude. What it comes down to, is that you don't know what will happen. But, all you care about is slinging arrows.

Perhaps you should concentrate on your own salvation and leave the outcome of the ROCOR faithful in the hands of God.