As I heard it there were a lot of people there at the talk given by Vladika Mark. He answered all questions presented and there were no apparently dissatisfied people. The talk lasted well over three hours.
Too bad you did not attend, Kollyvas....you could have asked and grilled to your hearts content.....
Milla
I think if it were so open, it might be presented for all to read...
R
Love is a holy state of the soul, disposing it to value knowledge of God above all created things. We cannot attain lasting possession of such love while we are attached to anything worldly. —St. Maximos The Confessor
Justin Kissel wrote:
Because they don't have to, and you don't have either the authority or the justification to make them?
I'm in ROCOR and certainly think that I should be allowed to know what they decided. It's just as important to me as to the hierarchs. What is this...a secret society? Or are we suppose to be the members of the same body???
Maybe they are trying to balance different factions--as they did throughout their entire history--and keep the boat from tipping?
Considering the frustrations of the laity and the messes that have occurred with the hierarchs...I think they should come up with a better strategy, because what they're working with now, doesn't seem to be working.
Katya wrote:
As to those "infamous" documents.... no one truly "knows" what is in them for they have not been hashed out, approved, bantered and/or officially posted.
But, when will they finally make an official statement? This has been going on for years. All they have to say is: we are not going to join, but all they do is say: we are just talking. What in the world is there so much to talk about, even over the passed 10 years?
Afterall, there cannot be so much doubt out there, if there isn't a reason to be given the chance to doubt.
If it is to be then GOD...that factor that most of these conversations leave out...will Will it so. If it is not to be then GOD...again that factor we forget to account for or even credit.... will again decide.
I don't think that God Willed that the Russians would fall under the persecution of 1917 and the horrors thereafter. God would have Willed that the people continue to live pious lives; but it was the sins of the Russian people that brought it on themselves. That's why the Russian
people need to repent and that's why their sufferings were meant to cleanse the next generations. I read that from Arbp. Averky.
God Wills for us to attain perfection in Him...but, we don't seem to follow that.
Sarcasm and the belittling of others serves no purpose
Aren't we ALL guilty of that? What makes you so pious, my dear?
Milla wrote:
As I heard it there were a lot of people there at the talk given by Vladika Mark. He answered all questions presented and there were no apparently dissatisfied people. The talk lasted well over three hours.
Too bad you did not attend, Kollyvas....you could have asked and grilled to your hearts content.....
I couldn't be there either...so how do I get the information from a meeting that wasn't recorded, when I can't even get one that supposedly was?
To Katya and Milla: wouldn't you like to know what is being decided with the fate of your jurisdictions or do you just not give a hoot? You both sound very uninterested in what was decided, either way.
In Christ,
Joanna
Create in me a clean heart, O God, and renew a right spirit within me. (Ps. 50)
Joasia:
You wrote:
What makes you so pious, my dear?
I never said I was more pious than anyone, the comment was directed at Rostislav, since he cannot resist but make sarcastic and demeaning remarks to posters who disagree with him.
You wrote:
To Katya and Milla: wouldn't you like to know what is being decided with the fate of your jurisdictions or do you just not give a hoot? You both sound very uninterested in what was decided, either way.
Yes I would like to know, but I do not have to like or accept the myriad of second guessing that has been going on. I want them (as in the commission and the hierarchs)to take their time and be very sure about what they are doing. I trust in my priest who trusts in his bishop....I will wait and see.
As to Archbp Mark's comments.....I was not able to be there but I had friends whom I trust there and they walked away satisfied with the answers they received. Perhaps you should request of your priest for such a visit, so that you can hear for yourself and make your own judgements.
What I see in all this mess is that there are alot of voices of people who have already decided.....they have left ROCOR after all....making alot of noise about what THEY feel. So much noise that the ones who have stayed are having trouble finding the right path through all the BS to the truth. We are doubting where we should be supporting, we are second guessing where we should be asking direct questions of the people who know and not of the people who have left.
My advise to you..... if you have questions, why not put it in a letter and send it to Met Lavr and Archbp Mark. They just might answer you.
Katya
yes we must stand with faith in our Bishops that they will lead us in the Straight and Narrow Salvific Path of Truth, if that becomes watered down so to speak ,then only at that time after we see any wrong doings or be-littleing of our Holy Orthodox Faith can we make our abode with different mindset Bishops and in another PChurch, but we must beware that the evil one is very cunning and knows of this whole thing of Schism and tradition, and just like we follow the Tradition of the Holy Fathers of the church of God, so was the evil one very strong and cunning in those ages as well , and the difference is they atleast had elders to guide them, we on the other hand have no one ,but a bunch of Theologist and college converts trying to establish a Church on the grounds of HUMAN ERROR -A church that has always been here and needs no one to claim her, as she is already Triumphant in Heaven and on Earth with millions of known and unknown Saints sadly talking about our steering away from the Truth by HUMAN ERROR and polymics, Beware the evil one will gather all the confused with one another and make it look TRUE, but it will be for the demise of there souls..
it is better to be hopeful and dis-satisfied with a True bishop , then cunned and connected to the evil one...
cc a wretch
"See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world, rather than on Christ" (Colossians 2:8).
Saint Paul the Apostle was right? "The foolishness of God is wiser than man's wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than man's strength" (1 Corinthians 1:25).
A certain Christian man went to see Saint Silouan for advice. "Father, I have a deadly enemy," he confessed. "The wrongs he's done to me are innumerable. He cheated me out of a large piece of property. He slanders me wherever he goes and speaks ill of me and my family. He's made my life unbearable. Now I find out he's even plotting to take my life. A few days ago, I heard he's going to try to poison me. But I won't let him get away with anything else. I've decided to hand him over to the law!" "Do as you like," Silouan said with indifference. "But Father," the man continued, "don't you think if this evil man's punished, especially severely as he should be, it would save his soul in the end? "Do whatever gives you peace," Silouan answered with the same nonchalance. "I'm going straight to the judge, then," the man said, getting up to leave. "Well, don't rush off quite yet," Silouan said. "First, let's pray for God to bring success on your course of action." They bowed their heads, and Silouan began to say the familiar "Our Father." But the man furrowed his brow in bewilderment when he heard the saint pray these words: "And do not forgive us our debts, as we do not forgive those in debt to us." "You got it wrong, Father," he interrupted. "That's not how the Lord's Prayer goes!" "Nevertheless, that's the way it is," Silouan sighed dispassionately. "Since you've already set your mind on handing your brother over to the courts, Silouan can't say the prayer the way it's supposed to be said without committing hypocrisy." From the Sayings of the Desert Fathers and Mothers
From this point forward I will not repond to the admitted uninformed heckling directed at me coming from the direction of the ROCOR provacateurs. And I make it known that personal references to myself are unwelcome.
R
ROCOR IS LYING BY OMMISSION and it is corrupt--more questions need to be asked BY EVERYONE.
Love is a holy state of the soul, disposing it to value knowledge of God above all created things. We cannot attain lasting possession of such love while we are attached to anything worldly. —St. Maximos The Confessor
Katya wrote:
I never said I was more pious than anyone, the comment was directed at Rostislav, since he cannot resist but make sarcastic and demeaning remarks to posters who disagree with him.
As I've noticed with your posts and others...it's not an exclusive trait.
Why do you talk with such self-righteousness, but use such unrighteous methods? You try to respond with insults and then complain that you are being insulted. How hypocritical is that?
All you want to do is throw stones. So, are you proud of yourself? Did you contribute anything of your Orthodox faith? Is it really worth it?
I was not able to be there but I had friends whom I trust there and they walked away satisfied with the answers they received.
Well, that's something. Why don't you let us know what the Archbp stated, since your friends must have told you about the conversations? Why do I feel like I'm pulling my own teeth? You have friends that have been given specific answers and yet you sit here, throwing stones instead of sharing this information, since many of us could not be there. So why don't you contribute a little and give me something positive to work with?
In Christ
Joanna
Create in me a clean heart, O God, and renew a right spirit within me. (Ps. 50)
