Archbishop GREGORY of Denver and Colorado

[Convertorthojoe]

There are many different jurisdictions as you know. I will tell you my experience as I believe it is relative, Good or Bad. I was first introduced to orthodoxy through the writings of Haille Selassie, last king of Ethiopia, who gave all boasts to christ alone through his holy orthodox church. At this time, I did not know anything about the schizms in the Orthodox Church. I only knew that this was the true church. So I went to find an orthodox church in Seattle as I thought this was the closest one. When I got there, I found it empty but there was one candle lit...When I got back home, I told my friends who were a little tripped out about the whole orthodox, christian thing. But they told me that there was an Orthodox priest in town that I already knew. I went to him and started studying through him. He gave me my first experiences with orthodoxy. A year later I moved to Portland and went to another church. This one was O.C.A. and the priest was a friend of my first priest. As time went on and I discovered more of the politics of the Orthodox world, I discovered that my first priest, a dear friend, was not under a bishop or affiliated with any jurisdiction. I moved again to Reno, looking for an O.C.A. church out here but none to be found. So I checked out the Greeks and the ROCOR but didn't feel right. When I had almost given up, I was told about a Serbian church. This church is my new home and from my understanding, the Serbs are in communion with every right believing church in America. There are those outside SCOBA that I'm sure believe the truth but I went for the majority rule as this is how Ecumenical counsels decided on what was truth. Orthodoxy is what christians have believed everywhere since the beginning, ie: (pentecost). I do not claim to know the whole of it...but if I am in the church than the whole of it ,I will find. I hear that there is some healing going on in the Rocor, Roca situation...But ther are those in Orthodoxy that are not happy with any church because no one is orthodox enough for them. Do we follow the letter of the law like pharisees or the spirit of the law like Christ? When we are harvested, are we wheatberry or chaff?
[/b]Disclaimer: This message does not pertain to those outside America as I have no experience with Churches outside the states...Nor is this a reflection of the beliefs of the Serbian church. I am just a lowly sinner with too many opinions. God Bless +++

Greetings germanus:
I appreciate your input. I hope I have not implied in any way that the Serbian jurisdicition is "less Orthodox," from any other jurisidiction even though yes, I did mention my issue with WCC.

My situation with the Serbian jurisdiction was really more of a social factor more than a theological one. And I believe that God's presence is at the altar of St. Peter's even though I confess I don't go there anymore. Been there done that.

It hurts to be misunderstood by people and anybody telling me or forcing me to go back shouldn't hold their breath that I will.

I am a worthless sinner. Again, my situation was really a social one although I TOLERATED at the time the knowledge that the Serbian jurisdiction is affiliated with the WCC. Despite that, I went through the chrismation. However, in good conscience (and I am speaking purely for myself and I am not implying in any way that a jurisdiciton that is affiliated with the WCC is someow less Orthodox) I don't not like the affiliation with the WCC and I would very much like to be affiliated and in communion with an Orthodox jurisdcition that isn't involved with the WCC.

Respectfully,
Joe B.

[尼古拉前执事]

Dear Joseph,

Gregory's last jurisdiction was in the ROAC. He got himself suspended over a number of things and was called to spiritual court in Russia for this. After being called thrice and not coming to court, his suspension was made permanent and he was thrown out of the Church.

When a clergyman is suspended he cannot serve the mysteries and if he dare do so those mysteries are considered invalid by the holy canons of the Church.

After he was 'retired' and 'excommunicated', he decided to 'leave the ROAC' and set up his new synod of one 'bishop'. He has called his new church he created the "Genuine Orthodox Church of America" even though there is already a Church with that name ( http://www.thegreekorthodoxchurch.com )

In California, ROAC had 2 priests. One came with us and the other initially went with Gregory. In time, he, Father John Claypool, and many other clergy that had been fooled in to staying with Gregory have left him. As far as I know he now only has a secret 'reader' in California.

Recently another report on some the few clergy he has left was made at http://roac-nftu.blogspot.com/2006/02/i ... egory.html you may want to check this out.

I am a member of the ROAC and live in Colorado. I attended Dormition Skete almost weekly. I was atmost of the meetings between out Metropolitan and Gregory at my priest's house when things started going this sad direction and this is how I know of these events in detail.

[Convertorthojoe]

Dear Joseph,

Gregory's last jurisdiction was in the ROAC. He got himself suspended over a number of things and was called to spiritual court in Russia for this. After being called thrice and not coming to court, his suspension was made permanent and he was thrown out of the Church.

When a clergyman is suspended he cannot serve the mysteries and if he dare do so those mysteries are considered invalid by the holy canons of the Church.

After he was 'retired' and 'excommunicated', he decided to 'leave the ROAC' and set up his new synod of one 'bishop'. He has called his new church he created the "Genuine Orthodox Church of America" even though there is already a Church with that name ( http://www.thegreekorthodoxchurch.com )

In California, ROAC had 2 priests. One came with us and the other initially went with Gregory. In time, he, Father John Claypool, and many other clergy that had been fooled in to staying with Gregory have left him. As far as I know he now only has a secret 'reader' in California.

Recently another report on some the few clergy he has left was made at http://roac-nftu.blogspot.com/2006/02/i ... egory.html you may want to check this out.

I am a member of the ROAC and live in Colorado. I attended Dormition Skete almost weekly. I was atmost of the meetings between out Metropolitan and Gregory at my priest's house when things started going this sad direction and this is how I know of these events in detail.

Father, please bless me:

I thank you for sharing this important information. I was NOT aware that there was scandal in the midst of Archbishop Gregory's clergy. This does give me reason for concern.

I thought that Dormition Skete was in communion with Archbishop Gregory?

I am very tired.

What is my place in this world? What do I belong to? Where do I go?

Confused but trying to keep my head up,
Joe B.

P.S: What jurisdiction is Dormition Skete under? Because I thought they were under Archbishop Gregory to begin with? I have an interest in DS books.

P.P.S: Unless the Pro Archbishop Gregory group (assuming there is one here?) has a rebuttal or defense to this, then this would seem cause for me to reconsider my opinion regarding Archbishop Gregory.

[Грешник]

Dear in Christ Joseph,

Archbishop Gregory is the sole member of the Synod of his GOCA. He has no other bishops and has walled himself off as the sole hierarch of his church.

I was a member of the Church in CO (with Father Deacon Nikolai) that was under the-then Archbishop and his monastery. I also saw some and heard others of the things that went on with the Schism of the Archbishop.

He has no way to raise other bishops to the episcopal seat as he is a lone Archbishop. He is not "under" anyone as a circumstance of his actions and on his site claims ot be part of an "independent jurisdiction" (along with the convent as well). The DS books are, I agree very good. But the sad fact is that a lot if not all of his books were written when he was under lawful authority. Since he has left any authority over him he has only republished works of others and made addendums to previous books that were written and published under him.

I pray daily for Archbishop Gregory. He was my link to Orthodoxy. He baptized me and I was married in his cathedral, (I still have the pictures) but in the end the greatest advice he ever gave me was a sort of revalation of things to come.

As I arose from the waters of baptism the Archbishop (Bishop at the time) said to me.

You are now a member of the Russian Orthodox Church. If I ever do anything to harm the Church you are obligated to leave me and have nothing ot do with me.

A year and a half later Gregory went into schism and I heeded his words. I am a member of the Mission in CO even though I live in AZ. I am preparing to leave AZ this spring for a monastery to become a monk. I will not go into details here but my actions in the past have caused me to lose a lot in my life and so I have been preparing for the past few months to leave and ask admission into a monastery as a monk to live out the remainder of my life in prayer. If you have any other questions regarding the Archbishop there are people here who have lived through it and have come out of it for the better, children (and pastors) of the Orthodox Church. My prayers are with you.

"Obedience is life, the opposite is also true..."

[ioannis]

P.S: What jurisdiction is Dormition Skete under? Because I thought they were under Archbishop Gregory to begin with? I have an interest in DS books.

Joe,

Dormition Skete belongs to Gregory, he lives there.

There have been many people, sadly, that have completley lost faith because of this man. Many either returned to their former ways or became warrior atheists/secularists. There have been MANY people who were with him and then left, which is why even now, he only has a half dozen disciples, many of whom I am sure are in the process of losing their faith. Recently, 3 people left him.

I would define DS as being a clear case of a cult. This is primarily because in order to join, you must believe that every other person in the world has left the Grace of God and that he is the last Orthodox bishop in the world. Of course he will say that the Lamian synod is Orthodox, but they utterly reject him for all his canonical violations. So when your salvation and the very truth of God is only found in one man, then I cannot call it anything but a cult.

Of course he will have a reason why every Genuine Orthodox synod has "apostasized" from the faith, but most of it is either half-truths with garnish or are outright lies.

As Fr. Nicholai says, go ahead and like his books (which were done by a woman at DS and not Gregory), but I wouldn't buy a Yugo because I liked the owners manual. I personally will not buy anything from them.

[Convertorthojoe]

P.S: What jurisdiction is Dormition Skete under? Because I thought they were under Archbishop Gregory to begin with? I have an interest in DS books.

Joe,

Dormition Skete belongs to Gregory, he lives there.

There have been many people, sadly, that have completley lost faith because of this man. Many either returned to their former ways or became warrior atheists/secularists. There have been MANY people who were with him and then left, which is why even now, he only has a half dozen disciples, many of whom I am sure are in the process of losing their faith. Recently, 3 people left him.

I would define DS as being a clear case of a cult. This is primarily because in order to join, you must believe that every other person in the world has left the Grace of God and that he is the last Orthodox bishop in the world. Of course he will say that the Lamian synod is Orthodox, but they utterly reject him for all his canonical violations. So when your salvation and the very truth of God is only found in one man, then I cannot call it anything but a cult.

Of course he will have a reason why every Genuine Orthodox synod has "apostasized" from the faith, but most of it is either half-truths with garnish or are outright lies.

As Fr. Nicholai says, go ahead and like his books (which were done by a woman at DS and not Gregory), but I wouldn't buy a Yugo because I liked the owners manual. I personally will not buy anything from them.

I'm confused. I mean, appreciate all that you are telling me however, aside from the one obvious reason for concern which would be members of the clergy who can't keep themselves celibate and have caused scandal within the church, aside from that I really honestly don't know what to say in regards to other synods. I haven't really studied the other schisms (L, etc) in depth for me to really comment and say that I am for or against them. I simply just don't know?

However what puzzles me is this: I recieved email from an Archimandrite George encouraging me to be in communion with Archbishop Gregory. If the URL regarding scandals involving clerics and the abuse of the laity is true then WHY would he recommend me to be in communion...why would DS be in communion still?

JB

[Ebor]

[quote="Convertorthojoe]

P.S: What I'm confused. I mean, appreciate all that you are telling me however, aside from the one obvious reason for concern which would be members of the clergy who can't keep themselves celibate and have caused scandal within the church,

There can be other scandals besides that. Cultic behaviour, control of people under them, and others.

However what puzzles me is this: I recieved email from an Archimandrite George encouraging me to be in communion with Archbishop Gregory. If the URL regarding scandals involving clerics and the abuse of the laity is true then WHY would he recommend me to be in communion...why would DS be in communion still?

If Achemandrite George is at DS and under Gregory of Colorado, why wouldn't he tell you to join them? It is natural for a group to want more members.

Ebor

JB[/quote]