Moderator: Mark Templet
Oh my! How positively gratifying....to be so absolutely sure of the face of another's weakness, without looking for our own.
To be so absolutely sure of one's righteousness in the face of a brother's doubt. Sounds like the Parable of the Pharisee all over again. Sigh!
Justin, I'm praying for you and your family.
:ohvey:
Katya
The fact that faithfulness to Orthodoxy is compared with "phariseeism" while apostasy is somehow seen as "repentance" says it all.
R
Kollyvas wrote:The fact that faithfulness to Orthodoxy is compared with "phariseeism" while apostasy is somehow seen as "repentance" says it all.
R
Kollyvas, you were in ROCOR werent you? So in the opinion of the True Orthodox you left a True Church for a false one. When we use what might be considered strong words you lecture us on "love"- I dont know Justin, there are those who do know him posting here and they are concerned about their friend. Surely there must be some room for economia, especially in the dark times we live in? Especially considering his wife and child?
Theophan.
Firstly, I never apostasized from Orthodoxy, and if you ask ROCOR, they would say I did not; moreover, they never would have said such a thing. Secondly, I have indicated the propriety of praying for apostates while maintaining a distance to:
1). avoid the temptations of the demons assaulting them OURSELVES.
2). give a sobering message that apostasy is cutting oneself off from the Church and its fellowship.
In none of that have been unloving or inconsistent but simply Orthodox.
R
Kollyvas wrote:Firstly, I never apostasized from Orthodoxy, and if you ask ROCOR, they would say I did not; moreover, they never would have said such a thing. Secondly, I have indicated the propriety of praying for apostates while maintaining a distance to:
1). avoid the temptations of the demons assaulting them OURSELVES.
2). give a sobering message that apostasy is cutting oneself off from the Church and its fellowship.
In none of that have been unloving or inconsistent but simply Orthodox.
R
Well as far as I am concerned joining the MP from ROCOR is WORSE than apostasy, and as regard a sobering message I think it depends on the circumstances. Sometimes harshness is necessary and sometimes softness, and I think his friends know best which is needed in this case. Again there is an Orthodox wife and child involved. Put yourself in their shoes.
Theophan.
I think that there is way too much emphasis on bashing Kollyvas. He's not saying anything that is anti-Orthodox. And really, nobody here has the authority to accuse another of not being Orthodox. Perhaps it's better to consider discussing the issue without throwing around accusations.
In Christ
Joanna
Create in me a clean heart, O God, and renew a right spirit within me. (Ps. 50)
Let me put this question forward. What does it take for someone who was Orthodox to turn away from It? I'm curious about that because I came from non-Orthodoxy to Orthodoxy and would like to know what pitfalls a person encounters when he choses to turn away from the truth.
What could possess a man to turn away from the truth, when he was so involved in it? Taking Holy Communion, going to church every Sunday and big feasts(if the opportunity allowed it).
And to add, I'd like to ask Justin, what made him deny the true faith. I think that this would be a valuable lesson for others, since we live in a time of such anti-Christian circumstances. And I'd like to know what Mila did to "bring him back".
Let's focus on the real issues. We are all Orthodox, no matter what jurisdiction. The Orthodox faith is believing in the true faith....not bashing one another.
In Christ,
Joanna
Create in me a clean heart, O God, and renew a right spirit within me. (Ps. 50)
