Please forgive me for jumping in with a new post, but I need some advice!! I am not Orthodox, but I have been attending a ROCOR church, which I like very much. Today, I stumbled on a site called "beliefnet" I have never seen such bitterness and hatred as was directed at the ROCOR! The church was called "evil", "taken over by liars and murderers" (!) and having "outlived its purpose." All this made me horribly sad. I certainly do not sense any of these things at the church I have been attending. The congregation is mostly Russian, and I somehow doubt that they are thinking of politics and schisms when they are worshipping.
I was attracted to this church because of its "Russianess," however I do not find it the least bit isolating. I am studying Russian on my own (without much success!) It is interesting that in my study of Orthodoxy, the small things confuse me much more than major doctrinal points. I will eventully approach the priest with some of my questions, but as a guest in this church, I don't want to burden him with all my stupid questions right now. For example: why does Light and Life Publishing offer books by evangelicals? See, I told you they were stupid! But on a more serious note, I don't want to give any portion of money to evangelicals who support conversion efforts in Russia.
Anyhow, I guess my main point is why do so many Orthodox have such a terrible view of the ROCOR? I have found the church to be comforting and spiritual, and I am a person who is very much "in the world." However, I've found the continuity of Orthodoxy to be very beautiful and re-assuring.
I'm sorry to just jump in, but I just need some input. I do not have any Orthodox friends, although I have a close friend who converted from Judiaism to Anglicanism, and she understands the turmoils that one goes through.
Thank you for letting me post here.
Newbie Question
Moderator: Mark Templet
Newbie Question
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OrthodoxyOrDeath
Sue,
I think you will find a warm reception for any of your questions here, after listening to me for the last several weeks, they are obviously very tolerant!
I am not in the ROCOR myself but don't think anyone would object ot an attempt to answer some of your questions.
You asked: "why does Light and Life Publishing offer books by evangelicals? "
That is not a "stupid" question at all. I noticed some years ago they were selling all sorts of stuff, from many other "groups" and took the time to write the company. Apparently they will do anything to make a buck. I have since refrained from making any purchaes from them.
"Anyhow, I guess my main point is why do so many Orthodox have such a terrible view of the ROCOR?"
If I could get an answer for this I suppose I will also know why the Scribes and Pharisees so hated Jesus that they had to contrive all sorts of evil against Him. As a matter of fact, was it not because He was a witness against them? According to scripture, many of them even knew that he was the Messiah, but even then could not follow Him because they "did not want to be put out of the Synogague"!!
Sue, I always use this on "those other groups" and the day you get a verfied and credible answer is the day I will tell you to listen to them. Ask them which Saint, which Holy Synod, which Holy Father said it was OK to commune with heretics, because I can show you not 1, 10 or a hundred, but thousands who said it was not OK! Then you will have to find out for yourself if they are indeed in communion with heretics. And I know "heretic" is considered a harsh word by some and maybe I will be beaten with a stick for using the term, but you must know! The traps of the devil are far more serious than a "unpleasant" term.
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bogoliubtsy
- Sr Member
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- Joined: Wed 16 April 2003 4:53 pm
- Location: Russia
I sometimes post on beliefnet and have always been a defender of ROCOR on that forum. I think if you search through some threads there, you'll find many who defend and support ROCOR, and even a few ROCOR members.
There are those on the "far left" of Orthodoxy who claim that ROCOR is schismatic because they do not hold communion with all of the world's self-governing jurisdictions at this time. They believe that ROCOR has become isolationist and extremist and that the reasons for ROCOR's existance ceased to exist with the fall of communism.
My opinion is this...and keep in mind that I attend a parish of the Orthodox Church in America, who ROCOR does not concelebrate with:
I believe, as many in the OCA and other Orthodox jurisdictions, that ROCOR was born out of historical circumstances. That ROCOR has been a witness for the truth since the time of the revolution. That despite ROCOR's shortcoming(ALL jurisdictions have them), ROCOR has kept on the narrow path of Orthodoxy and maintained a great piety amongst its members for almost 100 years. ROCOR, unlike any other Orthodox body, has made known the atheistic oppression of Orthodoxy in Russia, spoke out against harmful innovations in the Church, kept on the straight and narrow in regards to the Grace of the sacraments of other Orthodox jurisdictions(never denying their grace!), and has had possibly more than one great saint come from it.
ROCOR is only called schismatic by left wing Orthodox extremists. Many priests, and even a few bishops of the OCA keep close ties with ROCOR priests and ROCOR members.
ROCOR however was created as a temporary body that would once again unite with the Mother Church in good time. That time may or may not be in the near future, but I believe the good bishops of ROCOR have maintained a steady and sure path up until this very day...and any decision they make to reunite with Moscow will be the correct one simply because they haven't waivered too far from the fullness of Orthodox truth in the past.
ROCOR is a good place to be. Stay at your parish, speak with your priest about issues and questions you may have. Don't be fooled for an instant by certain extremists who would tell you ROCOR isn't legit.
This is my opinion.
Which parish are you attending?
-Peter
RE: Newbie Question
Thank you for your reply!
One thing I noticed the other night on some other site sort of puts things in perspective: it was Bishop Kallistos Ware's comments about female ordination (sorry, I thought I bookmarked it, but I guess not). Bishop Ware is, of course OCA, and attends WCC conferences. I guess his comment was something about woman priests not being something Orthodoxy supported, in response, a Methodist female minister said that "that was the saddest thing she had ever heard." Gee, I thought hearing on the news that a kid in Iraq had both his parents killed, then lost both his arms and legs from a bomb was a lot sadder, but hey, I'm not a feminist clergyperson. My point is, people always criticize the ROCOR for being very wary of ecumenism, but when a Methodist minister is questioning Orthodox doctrine, something is very wrong! I don't find ROCOR "insular" or wary of outsiders. As for their internal problems, I wouldn't speak on those until I consulted someone far more knowledgable than myself. I am still shocked though at how hateful some of the comments on beliefnet were. All this division in Orthodoxy is new to me of course. Last year, the editor of The New Yorker magazine said that in the future, the Catholic Church's failure to ordain women will be looked upon the same way we view apartaid S. Africa or Stalinist Russia. Well the absurdity and arrogance of that comment really didn't surprise me at all, coming from a liberal publication, but the attacks on the ROCOR on beliefnet did indeed catch me unaware. When I attended the Pascha service, I didn't have the slightest feeling that I was in a "schismatic" church. I was surrounded by very devout people.
Please forgive this anecdote, and also my Catholic perspective, which I hope causes no offense, but last year, where I live, there was a liberal RC church which had a woman in vestments celebrating mass. When the bishop finally took action, this woman and the priest formed their own church. The bishop sent a very liberal priest to sort of "smooth things over." When the parishioners came up to recieve Communion, they threw the consecrated host back at the priest, because they felt this woman "priest" had been persecuted. Sorry to ramble, but this just illustrates the terrible situations that arise from the fragmentation of doctrine, which I do not percieve in the Orthodox faith.
Sorry my spelling is terrible, but I'm kind of tired. Thanks for your patience.
Beliefnet's bad stay away from it. It's mission is the same as the WCC to combine all religions into a New World Religion in a New World Order. 
Well, until your posting I'd never heard of beliefnet, but out of curiosity I spared it a few minutes of my time yesterday, well, it was a quiet day at the office, so it was more like 1/2 an hour... The only thing I managed to learn was that I know more about Pope John Paul II than I do about Orthodox icons, (hey I went to a Catholic school for 8 years, you pick stuff up). Other than the quizes that were rather amusing, the rest of it was such a mish-mosh of stuff that can't really get into it & learn about any particular faith. It throws way too much stuff at you to quickly.
Anyway, that was my thought of the day.
Ania