I Believe In ONE Holy Catholic & Apostolic Church...

[AndyHolland]

"this just proves my point: that the 'majority" Orthodox who are currently in error with New Calendar schism and ecumenism, will not condemn themselves in any conciliar Pan Orthodox council. They will continue what they have always done by JUSTIFYING matters as you mention above."

That extreme pessimistic view is only true if one denies that the Truth reveals Himself to us. We have to have FAITH!

Somebody had better convene a counsel somewhere. The problem with those who have held the line against Ecumenism and the Calendar is that they have held the line against everyone else and themselves. What sort of example is that?

andy

[Kollyvas]

Here, we boih agree that a house divided cannot stand...
R

[1937 Miraculous Cross]

DEar Andy and Mr. Malleev-Pokrovsky,

Andy you wrote:

That extreme pessimistic view is only true if one denies that the Truth reveals Himself to us. We have to have FAITH!

Somebody had better convene a counsel somewhere. The problem with those who have held the line against Ecumenism and the Calendar is that they have held the line against everyone else and them

Call me pessimistic if you want, but it has been since 1924 that the New Calendar was adopted in contradiction to the Anathema of the Holy Pan Orthodox Councils. Ecumenism has been present since shortly before the adoption of this calendar.

I see no movement towards repentance of the majority Orthodox. The "Traditionalist" Old Calendarists, contrary to what people think, are not "holding the line" against each other based on theological matters, but more on administrative/synodal matters.

I'm all for councils, but I still have yet to hear from anyone their believe on the realistic possibility of the "World" Orthodox who are in error, to summon a council with those they call "schismatics" -- ie, the traditionalist Old Calendarists -- and then proceed to condemn themselves.

Do I wish for something like this to happen...sure! Realistically, no.
What more do they need? It is like the rich man asking Abraham to send Lazarus to his living brother to warn him of Hell, and Abraham replies that he has the scriptures...what more? the "World" Orthodox have been swimming in the murky waters of schism and ecumenistic heresy in violation of the canons THEY ALREADY HAVE. They should have repented already.

So, basically, yes..I'm pessimistic. However, my joy is in knowing that the True Orthodox Church still survives. There is never a problem of heresy or schism "within" the Church -- as the Church is always pure in doctrine, but only heresy or schism that only seperates one from the Church.

in Christ,
nectarios

[AndyHolland]

Being an Antiochian in SCOBA, I have certainly come around to the view that the New Calendar is wrong. I was suprised but my daughter rather spontaneously expressed the desire to celebrate Christmas on Orthodox Christmas this year. On the bright side consider:

http://merecomments.typepad.com/merecom ... ews_o.html

Furthermore, converts tend to be very conservative and long for authentic Orthodoxy. We also have a legitimate need for the Liturgy to be in the local language (English in the US). Isn't that part of Holy Tradition or even Canon law? Why has that not been enforced?

the Antiochians got that one correct in 1961 and as a result, experience real growth. The scary thing is that some of the reading materials for the seminaries look hideous (others are pretty good).

It is the convert Anglicans who are raising the fuss however, As time goes by, things will change. Let us pray!

Andy Holland
Somerset PA

[Kollyvas]

I am optimistic for CHRIST IS RISEN! sin and death are overthrown. The gates of hell can never prevail. In almost every local church the pendulum is swinging back, ecumenism is being abandoned and/or placed under intense scrutiny and the renewal in the Fathers of Orthodox, Faith, Life & Practice (Neo-Patristic Synthesis) is occuring...It is truly morning in Orthodoxy. So, for me, my hope is resolution of our commonly held ecclesiological and disciplinary questions and moving forward to ONE unity where resistance has found its resolution and we can begin to formulate our response to secularism, our understanding of the Church Militant without imperial patronage, evangelization and the return of long-separated communities such as the Non-Chalcedonians...A hopeful vision is so much more gladdening to the heart.
R

[1937 Miraculous Cross]

Dear Rostislav,

you wrote:

It is truly morning in Orthodoxy. So, for me, my hope is resolution of our commonly held ecclesiological and disciplinary questions and moving forward to ONE unity where resistance has found its resolution

Morning? this almost implies that the Church somehow faded and is starting anew. I'm all for your optimism and conciliar talk, but one has to ask the question, where was the conciliarity when the State Church of Greece persecuted the followers of the Paternal Calendar...even to the point of martyrdoom? This was already a battle about ecumenism, though it was specifically the calendar change that prompted a schism. Where was the dialogue when the "majority' Orthdox who have been in error, seperating themselves from the Church, brought instead persecution? We all know the story of the blood bath in Russia, yet you call for counciliarity? Even now, the EP is persecuting the Holy Esphigmenon in Athos. Counciliarity?

I have followed your posts on the other threads and you are clearly anti-ecumenist in many things you write, yet, you are in a jurisdiction that itself has ecumenist leanings and is in communion with blatant schismatics and ecumenists. (I won't list them all again.) Isn't the meaning of communion and sharing of the same cup, an indication of oneness of ecclesiology? Don't the Holy Canons call for a seperation from schismatics and heretics instead?

So, I respectfully disagree with you that there is a "morning" dawning in Orthodoxy. The True Orthodox Church never ceased and those local churches that embraced the violations of the Holy Traditions are still under Pan Orthodox anathemas, and are outside the Church. If there is a "morning' as you say, IMHO, it would mean discussions about returning to the Patristic calendar for the sake of unity. Have you hear whisperings of this that I haven't?

Your previous posts have not convinced me that the Churches that are under anathemas and are ill are going to summon a council to condemn themselves. That would be a miracle indeed!

Respectfully,
nectarios

[Liudmilla]

I wonder.............how would every one have reacted if instead of ROCOR .....the initals spread through out this posting read.....oh I don't know maybe...ROAC or TOC or SCOBA or ROCIE?

Would the reactions have been the same?

I think not......

Milla