Elisabeth Behr-Sigel

[Logos]

"The question of the ordination of women to the priesthood in Orthodox churches is not "closed", according to WCC general secretary Konrad Raiser. In one plenary session, Vsevolod Chaplin of the Russian Orthodox Church described the call for inclusive language as "blasphemous". As long as other WCC churches advocate an agenda calling for all churches to ordain women and accept inclusive language, he said, "eucharistic unity is a dream that will never come true". When a journalist asked Raiser to comment at a press conference on Chaplin's remarks, the German theologian pointed to recent research about women's ordination by two respected Orthodox theologians, Bishop Kallistos Ware and Elisabeth Behr-Sigel, who he said had reached the conclusion that "there are no essential or ecclesiological reasons preventing the ordination of women in the Orthodox tradition". Raiser said this research, which reflects "emerging perspectives" within Orthodoxy, shows that "if you take seriously the Christian affirmation that men and women are created equally in the image of God..., the systematic exclusion of women from the ministry cannot be defended on purely theological grounds". " :ohvey:

This is not good news. Forgive me for saying this, but the two Orthodox theologians cited by Raiser are wolves in sheep's clothing. This is the danger of ecumenism. Ware and Behr-Siegel are saying what the WCC wants to hear, because it fits their agenda. If any Orthodox disagrees with those two theologians, they are considered 'traditionalist' freaks. My question is this, why haven't others in the church rebuked Ware and Behr-Siegel for their position? I am glad to a member of the MP stand up here and say that the WCC position is blasphemous.

[bogoliubtsy]

So,
Just returned a short while ago from one of the most ridiculous displays of psuedo-"intellectual" Orthodoxy I have ever seen, read, or heard about. All of my worst fears were realized in Prof. Behr-Sigel's presentation and the audiences questions and responses to the presentation. The "glories" of the WCC and ecumenism(and not the "good" ecumenism that can somtimes take place) were extolled by Prof. Behr-Sigel as she recounted stories of her participation in the WCC and the negative responses of "traditional" minded(which amounted to out of touch and unenlightened) bishops that are aware of her position. She put down Fr.Thomas Hopko as having a flawed theological concept of the priesthood and its relation to Christ. She made arguments for the ordination of women that had absolutely NO grounding in the Church's Tradition, scripture or the Ecumenical Councils. She took shots at the fact that women aren't allowed on the altar and are not ordained as readers, never substantiating her position with anything that slightly resembled a sound theological argument. ALL of her opinions on these matters were NEVER backed up by anything other than a few "proof-texts" she took from the Gospels and contorted to fit her agenda coupled with her own personal feelings. Many of her comments on the "inequality" within the Church riled up certain members of the audience causing them to grumble with discontentment at the Church's "unenlightened" position which she presented as lacking in true fullness that we must rediscover through theological dialogue and investigation.
If so many people weren't taking her seriously, the event would have been laughable. Unfortunately though, people are taking her seriously and forming what appears to be a "grass-roots" type mentality to effect change within the Church. Of course, we are all aware that the Church's teachings should not and cannot be molded according to personal whims or the whims of a particular culture, and are certainly not shaped in a democratic "grass-roots" type fashion.
Her Protestant training and background was clearly present in the way she approached the topics she presented, being entirely rootless from Holy Tradition.
She made vague, sweeping statements about the state of the Church and backed up her point of view with even more vague "proofs" as to why the point of view she presents is correct.
Very, very disappointing.

[尼古拉前执事]

I have lots of questions. Did you confront her?
So this was at the GOA seminary? :ohvey:
And she is supported in this my the EP bishop formerly known as Timothy Ware?
And the OCA parish you frequent had their sisterhood supporting this? What church? :shock:

[bogoliubtsy]

I'm definately open to questions since my rambling post above might have been vague.

1.)No, I didn't confront her. She's 96 and mostly speaks French. Despite her strange outlook, she seems like a nice lady. I didn't think a confronation was called for. It's not like I would have changed her mind on anything either.

2.)This was held in the chapel(which I also found weird) at Holy Cross Greek Orthodox School of Theology.

3.)It seems that she is supported by Bishop Kallistos in some of the statements she makes. However, Bishop Kallistos has also said: "Those...who ordain women as ministers...are not however creating priests, but dispensing with priesthood altogether."

4.)We don't really have what you could call a real "sisterhood" at my parish. Because of this event a couple of women from my parish got together with other local woman to organize an interest in Prof. Behr-Sigel's presentation and works. Do I like that they support this kind of thing? No, absolutely not. Do I wish I had a viable ROCOR alternative in Boston? Yes, absolutely. Am I now considering making due with all Slavonic services at the local ROCOR church? It's crossed my mind.
The church is Holy Trinity Cathedral in Boston.

[bogoliubtsy]

Related to the question of attendance at my parish and the OCA in general:
I find that there are developing(or perhaps have always been?) two OCA's. The jurisdiction seems to be polarized on many issues. If you go to St.Tikhon's monastery/seminary it's like ROCOR. If you go to many OCA parishes in the West, they are also like ROCOR. Some of the OCA's bishops are very close to having a oneness of mind with some in ROCOR. Bishop Tikhon of the OCA was just today writing about how ridiculous ecumenism is and basically praising Metr.Philaret. There appear to be two OCAs emerging. Maybe when I move I'll have the chance of attending a parish having more of a mind like the "other" OCA.

[Logos]

This is very disturbing. The WCC has not and will not benefit Orthodoxy. Thank you for your report Peter. You say that she approached things in a Protestant way and not from an Orthodox perspective...this is sad since she claims to be a convert Orthodoxy. I stand by my comments that I have made earlier. I would hope that the bishop that oversees the church takes sometime at the church and debunk this pseudointellectual orthodox garbage.

[bogoliubtsy]

Yeah, well...MY BISHOP WAS THERE. Now that was disturbing.