"SPY CHURCH" (The rocor/mp connection)

[1937 Miraculous Cross]

Dear "Corpus Christi",

you wrote:

my concern is for those that have been scandalised into believing no church has the Grace of God ,except there 10-15 churches. and if you cant get to one,then move closer to us.........that is absurd , may God have Mercy on them that preach this confusion..

Many of us have already left the ROCOR and happily found other jurisdictions whose bishops are consistent in their ecclesiology. In many cases, we cannot move to the 10 -15, or 4 or 5 parishs that may exist here in the US in other jurisdictions, but we form missions, do the readers' services and host the clergy 3 or 4 times a year. Is it the same as going to Church every Sunday with the full Divine Liturgy? No...but even for those in ROCOR, their parish numbers are diminishing already, as many have left over the years. ( We had to travel 3 hours to get to a ROCOR parish.)

Far from being scandalized about notions that 'no church has the Grace of God, except the 10 -15", I personally found the ROCOR bishops and clergy to be the cause of scandal. Hence, we left in 2000 after the Oct. Sobor. I went from clergy that upheld ROCOR's anti-ecumenist position to the same clergy saying the OCA and Antiochian's are part of the Church. My former ROCOR priest who I liked very much, unfortunately, went thru some kind of "mind altering" experience after he came back from Russia, for he was suddenly praising the MP and was all for union.

So, whether you feel the need to stay with the ROCOR or at some point you can't take it anymore and leave, I assure you that there are other jurisdictions that are more stable and have less "controversy' going on to disrupt one's spiritual life....and I'm talking about other Old Cal. jurisdictions.

in Christ,
Nectarios Manzanero
Austin,TX

[joasia]

I think that we should consider some logical perspective on this. There is something happening within ROCOR. My church, St. Nicholas Cathedreal, in Montreal was burnt down, on purpose. There were gasoline canisters found in the alter. It happened Jan 1998. Those responsible, were with the Russian government( I don't know what to call them now). It was a direct message to Vl. Vitaly. He loved our cathedral. Montreal was his home. He was devestated when that happened. It was a personal message to him.

I don't agree with him leaving. He should have protected his "little ones". He had so many in Montreal.

But, just the same...I'm not talking conspiracy, but logical facts. OUR CHURCH WAS BURNT DOWN ON PURPOSE, BY SOVIET AGENTS.

Some say by God....so God left gasoline canisters in the altar?

They wanted us to know they did it. They wanted Vladika Vitaly to know that it was a message to him.

Holy Martyrs and Saints of Russia, pray for us.

In Christ

Joanna

[joasia]

Nectarios,

I have hope for ROCOR. I will not accept the fact that all the souls within ROCOR are lost to ecumenism or sergeinism. There are those within ROCOR who will fight for the truth. And I hope, that in our decade, we will have a shining light who will proclaim the Orthodox faith.

But, I do believe that there are many who are within ROCOR who are sent there to cause disruption. It's not paranoia...it's fact.

We have to approach this with sensibility and faith. But, we can't ignore the political activities. To brush it off as non-Orthodox behavior is ignoring our responsiblities to preserve the Orthodox faith against worldly situations.

In Christ,

Joanna

[CorpusChristi]

I am going to answer as many of the posts addressed to me as possible.
The numbers of Faithful in Rocor have not diminished,in fact I know for a fact that some churchs on both the East coast and West Coast and Even Texas have had to actually wonder what to do because they cant hold the number of Faithful that are flocking to there Churchs, and 1937 you must know that we are all of human nature and what used to be somewhat harsh and almost cruel to God,has changed to Love and Peace..and the visits to russia Im sure that you and Nathaniel and the DR. could say " the kgb is kidnapping these priests and Bishops and brainwashing them"........thats not it at all, have any of you ever spoken to a Priest or Bishop on these change of views, they are storys of almost complete 180 degree change of piety for Christ, things have changed dramatically .times are near, but these young Bishops growing older are seeing things from a different perspective and that is ,as Honest,caring,loving Shephards of CHRIST(when one attacks them-one attacks Christ)..one cannot be sure of the cause of Vladyka Vitalys Church ARSON(soviet conpiracy? anti-russian ? )..you forget all the non-russian minoritys that were made to feel as if they werent wanted in Churchs of that area or there vicinitys..also Just because the Sword of the Lord falls on someone or something it does not mean a human presence will not be left(Gas Cans)..But we will never know, the evil one sometimes prevails when one falls away from our Lord Jesus Christs truth.
your fact remains, Vladyka did leave his flock, and he keeps leaving farther and farther everyday..Alzheimers is a very difficult disease,and the fact remains that other young passioned souls took advantage of his Dillema and have caused a great sorrow for our Lord Jesus Christ amongst his Church abroad, they were persecuted before and now we persecute them for going back to what is Rightfully of CHRIST..this same KGB intelligence was even more of a problem from New York to Dallas Tx,in the 60s and especially during the assasination of JFK our Demo.President,
just a week or two before this assasination of JFK the two daughters of the infamous assasinator had them Baptized in the Metropolita Russian Orthodox church in Dallas Tx, and the CIA and FBI swarmed the Russian communitys and Bishops and Priests, the rumors were so threatening from ROCOR to the Metropolta that it ended up wasting alot of time...
his wife was of Russian decent and he spent alot of time in Russia aswell..anyone living in Dallas Tx at this time remembers the KGB rumors in the Metropolita, now the OCA...Look at them now, GOD HAS PREVAILED...........cc

[joasia]

Corpus,

Forgive me but I can't understand what you're saying. I've read it over 3 times and I don't know what you are saying.

J

[Dr E.L. Magerovsky]

\Unfortunately, during some two millenia of Christiandom there has
been no episode even resembling that what happened to Russia in
the twentieth century. Never before the "church-like entity",
organized solely for the benefit of a godless and
anti-religious government, was superimposed upon the structure
of a true church which happened to be the Russian Orthodox Church.
It uses church-like parlance, even some of the old texts and customs.

Now, at times, its difference from a true church is almost
imperceptible, but you soon see that something is amiss, that
now the glorification of the state, the nationhood takes precedence over God.
It is a result of the fifty years of being subjected to the godless Soviet regime,
whose hand-maiden it indeed was.

It has partially liberated itself from that, but only partially,
it still has many improper connections with the secular that
it still has to shed before it could become a true Church.
Above all, it should renounce its godless beginnings on that
dark night in 1943 in the Kremlin office of Joseph Stalin.
Once Stalin reestablished the Patriarchy in the "sergianist" church,
bishops were installed from the "renovationists" who were paid
by the Soviets. Thus the infiltration of "paid" agents began.

Although there is no "heresy" here to speak of in the MP,
what has happened to the Russian Orthodox Church lies totally
beyond any concept of heresy. To have a "heresy" you have to have a
positive belief to which you are heretical. Atheism is not heresy. It
abrogates even that to which you may be heretical, and therefore is
wholly outside your pale of thinking. So the word "heresy" is totally
inapplicable here.

The point is that beginning with the Stalinist "use" of the
"sergianist "church entity, the infiltration of "agents" proliferated.
It can only get worse if the union takes place. And America will
suffer for it as Mr Preobrazhensky says.

Dr E.L. Magerovsky Ph.D/ Columbia University 1975/Russian History
and Foreign Affairs