Archbishop Of Canterbury Has Only Met God In RO CHURCH

[CGW]

But he still hasn't said he met God in the anglican "church"...wonder why that is?
r

Um, because he wasn't asked that question?

[AndyHolland]

Our family was in the Anglican communion all our lives until about 9 or 10 years ago and that approach to God seemed valid enough. However, for some reason we were drawn to Orthodoxy.

Then when I realized that the Bishops of the Church were advocating things like "partial birth abortion", it became apparent that they were not of God - but wolves in sheep's clothing.

I can only kick myself for not having converted years earlier when the inclination first began. There is very little intellectually that separates the true Anglican from the Orthodox, but what does separate the two is experiential and truly vast. You cannot explain Orthodoxy, you live it and experience it. True Anglicanism yearns for that experience and reality of God that Dr. Williams is speaking in the article (yes I read it).

There is no valid historic, scriptural or theological reason for the Anglican Church to exist outside of Holy Orthodoxy. Dr. Williams and serious Anglicans understand that their station is temporary.

Ordaining a homosexual Bishop and the like in America is really beyond comprehension - Anglicanism cannot survive outside of the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church - and it appears from the article Dr. Williams realizes this.

At some point one must awake from the slumber. I truly hope and pray that many Anglicans either on their own, or on a diocesan level, come to Holy Orthodoxy and escape the wolves who are tearing apart the flock. Whole congregations have come to Orthodoxy at various places in America, and it is only a matter of time before the refugee converts outnumber the cradle Orthodox who have no concept how Good and wonderful the Mother Church really is! [That is because the cradle Orthodox would be wise to avoid the experience of being in the void.]

andy

[Ekaterina]

Andy wrote:

it is only a matter of time before the refugee converts outnumber the cradle Orthodox who have no concept how Good and wonderful the Mother Church really is!

I'm sorry Andy, but as a cradle Orthodox this statement troubles me tremendously. Why would you think that Cradle Orthodox have no concept? I feel you are way of the mark here.

I realise that to most converts, cradle Orthodox seem very cavalier about their faith and that they take things for granted, seem to "bend the rules" and that it seems that they don't "show" the same piety that converts exhibit. Yet you seem to forget that for us, we have lived it from the start and it is in our bones, a part of us constantly.

We, who have grown up in the faith, have at times wandered, have at times looked elsewhere and yet we continue to be Orthodox.....Why? because we DO know "how Good and wonderful the Mother Church really is".

This is a horrible generalization that always seems to mar relations between cradle and convert Orthodox.

Katya

[CGW]

There is very little intellectually that separates the true Anglican from the Orthodox, but what does separate the two is experiential and truly vast. You cannot explain Orthodoxy, you live it and experience it. True Anglicanism yearns for that experience and reality of God that Dr. Williams is speaking in the article (yes I read it).

What you claim for Orthodoxy is also true of Anglicanism. One cannot understand Anglicanism at all by reading about bishops "teaching" on the subject of abortion.

It's hard for me to take your statement about "true Anglicanism" when I, truly, am Anglican and you no longer are. When it comes to the experiential, it would seem that Anglicans can experience God outside the confines of their own liturgy and theology, but perhaps the Orthodox cannot. Or perhaps it is only Orthodox converts who suffer under what I must hope are temporary limitations. On the experiential level, I feel both strong kinships and strong alienations. Propositionally, of course, the differences are right out in the open. And yet you say yourself that you judge your old bishops not on experience, but on propositions.

And then there is the point that every Orthodox discussion of Williams' store elides-- the second experience. If the archbishop is finding God in a baptist service, then clearly every Baptist out there can go ahead and claim everything you've said-- except for his church instead of yours.

[Ekaterina]

Orthodox6 is right........ after you have converted you are Orthodox, just as a cradle is Orthodox. There are enough other things separating us, we don't need this dubious separation as well. If only we would all remember that we are Orthodox first and everything else second! How much better would everything be?

Katya

[DavidHawthorne]

Christ is among us!
I know that in my earlier years as a convert I would always look somewhat dimly at what I percieved to be the aloofness of cradle Orthodox to their own heritage. Some of this may have been accurate, probably more of it than I care to realize was new convert zeal based on the type of zeal encouraged by the evangelicals and charismatics from whence I came. I then began to consciously decide that whenever I noticed that aloofness, rather than judge the cradleO, it was better for me to remember St. Paul's exhortation to always consider others better than myself. I am sure Andy knows and lives this and doesn't mean to denigrate born Orthodox. It was then that I began to notice a lot of piety among these people even though it was packaged differently than the expressions I was used to. I still continue this practice whenever "convert Dave" sticks his head up again but I find myself noticing whether someone is cradle or convert less and less.
CGW made a nice effective repartee with his comment about the Baptists being able to use the same article to bolster their claims to the Truth. Touche, CGW! I enjoy seeing a good sparring point made even when it comes from the other side. It just goes to show your larger point that making blanket assertions by lifting quotes out of their specific context can really backfire on us.
In Christ,
Rd. David

[AndyHolland]

I had no intention of condescending to the cradle Orthodox and if it appeared that way, I apologize. Rather what was meant is best articulated as written in Luke 7:41-43.

andy