THE "MP" - THE WHORE UPON MANY WATERS

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Nathaniel Kapner

Post by Nathaniel Kapner »

Dear John,

When I say "we" by that I mean those of us who are
"in the Church."

I am a +ROAC Subdeacon. ROAC is "in the Church."
+ROCOR (V) is "in the Church." +ROCOR (L) is still
"in the Church." The Moscow Patriarchate is not
"in the Church."

A bishop is only a successor of the Apostes if he
contends for the Faith Once Delivered. +ROCOR
now only has three who do.

IF, (and I am going to prevent it) the +ROCOR commits
fornication with the Whore that sits upon many waters,
namely the "MP" by voting "PRO MP" in May 2006,
not only will ROCOR be no longer "in the Church,"
but all who partake of Communion thereafter will be
drinking "the wine of the Moscow Matriarchy's fornications."

Keep us all in your prayers,

+ROAC Subdeacon Nathaniel

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SouthernOrthodox
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Post by SouthernOrthodox »

About the only logical thing you mentioned in your last post was "Keep us all in your prayers" most Orthodox Christians will do just that. A question for you to deeply consider is by what authority can you make such a over the top statement.

IF, (and I am going to prevent it) the +ROCOR commits
fornication with the Whore that sits upon many waters,
namely the "MP" by voting "PRO MP" in May 2006,
not only will ROCOR be no longer "in the Church,"
but all who partake of Communion thereafter will be
drinking "the wine of the Moscow Matriarchy's fornications."

You seem to be on the fast track to sainthood, so I guess if you canonize yourself and assume all power on honor yourself, then that statement would become true. I am most certain you can justify that by the Holy Fathers writings in one of the Cannons I am sure, but until that time, you may want to re-acquaint yourself (as we all should) with the basic tenants of what being Orthodox is all about. Take out the "Russian" if that is what you where born as or converted to and you will see the non-senseical ramblings you are writing.

John Haluska
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Posts: 130
Joined: Thu 1 July 2004 6:23 pm

Post by John Haluska »

Nathaniel,

You mentioned:

“A bishop is only a successor of the Apostes (sic) if he contends for the Faith Once Delivered. +ROCOR now only has three who do.”

So, you are now either clairvoyant or a prophet?

Unless I am mistaken,

God Alone knows men’s hearts.

And, you said,

”IF, (and I am going to prevent it) the +ROCOR commits
fornication with the Whore that sits upon many waters,
namely the "MP" by voting "PRO MP" in May 2006,
not only will ROCOR be no longer "in the Church,"
but all who partake of Communion thereafter will be
drinking "the wine of the Moscow Matriarchy's fornications." ”

Excuse me,

…“(and I am going to prevent it)”…

Unless I am mistaken, the word…“IF” is the operative word in this instance.

God is in charge, knows men’s hearts, and He Alone is Judge.

Not you.

John Haluska

Nathaniel Kapner

"BAD NEWS" FOR ROCOR

Post by Nathaniel Kapner »

The St Petersburg Times- "BAD NEWS" FOR ROCOR

Even the St. Petersburgh Times is wary. (!) See the *** Below.

Issue #1057(23), Friday, April 1, 2005
The St Petersburg Times
Reaching for Religious Reunion
[See ** Below]

Contributor - Lawrence A. Uzzell, President of International
Religious Freedom Watch, a Christian organization dedicated to
protecting religious believers of all faiths from persecution by
their own governments.

REACHING FOR RELIGIOUS REUNION by Lawrence A. Uzzell (IRFW)

"Unlike Poland and the Baltic states, Russia lacks a key source of
soft power: a united body of ethnic expatriates who can be relied on
to support the mother country's policies in places like Washington.

"But this could change in the very near future. Moscow may bring
into its sphere of influence what used to be a key ideological base
for the Kremlin's emigre foes, the Russian Orthodox Church Outside
Russia, or ROCOR.

"The Kremlin and the domestic, Kremlin-dominated Russian Orthodox
Church could gain a new seal of moral and historical legitimacy at a
time when Russia faces growing criticism for its swing toward
authoritarianism.

"In the 1920s, when the Bolsheviks were jailing or killing thousands
of Orthodox Christians, a small group of refugee bishops formed what
eventually became ROCOR. That body inherited or founded hundreds of
parishes among Russian emigres in Western Europe and the Americas...

"One of those habits is Sergyanism, named after the tame bishop
chosen by Stalin as patriarch of Moscow. Under Sergy and his
successors, the domestic church's top clergy systematically
collaborated with a regime that systematically persecuted the
church's own members. The habit continued to the end of Soviet rule
and beyond.

"Critics of the Moscow Patriarchate note that to this day, it
collaborates with tyrants such as the current rulers of Belarus and
Turkmenistan, as well as with Russia's siloviki. Sergyanism lives
on, observe these critics, not just as past history the church has
never repented of, but as unreformed present reality.

"Consider the Moscow Patriarchate's relations with Saparmurat
Niyazov, better known as Turkmenbashi. Turkmenistan's president for
life presides over a totalitarian cult of personality bordering on
self-deification. He has authored his own personal holy scriptures,
which must be studied exhaustively in the state schools and
venerated in both Christian and Muslim places of worship along with
the Bible and the Koran.

"Instead of telling the truth about Niyazov, the Russian church has
awarded him with the Order of St. Danil, its highest honor for
secular rulers. The Patriarchate's priest Andrei Sapunov serves as
an official of the Niyazov government's Council for Religious
Affairs, the direct continuation of the state agency that controlled
religious life when Turkmenistan was a Soviet republic.

"Nevertheless, the Moscow Patriarchate seems confident that it is on
track toward reunification with Orthodox emigres. The public
statements of both sides have resumed their previous cordial tone
after expressions of disagreement over disputed church
properties in Palestine.
Among the honored guests at the
Patriarchate's recent Worldwide Russian People's Council in Moscow
were several ROCOR clerics.

"The speeches at that gathering, devoted to celebrating the Soviet
victory in World War II and linking it to the Kremlin's current
policies, suggest that the domestic church is counting on Russian
nationalism to woo the emigres. Especially striking is the
distinctively Soviet flavor of that nationalism. The main speeches
failed to mention the victory's dark sides, for example the
imposition of totalitarian atheism on traditionally Christian
societies such as Romania and Bulgaria. Patriarch Alexy II made the
incredible statement that the victory brought the Orthodox peoples
of Europe closer and raised the authority of the Russian Church. If
one had no other information, one would think that the establishment
of Communist Party governments in the newly conquered countries was
purely voluntary - and that what followed was unfettered religious
freedom.

"Sergyanism is clearly still thriving, despite the Moscow
Patriarchate's occasional abstract statements asserting its right to
criticize the state. The Patriarchate's leaders still openly
celebrate Patriarch Sergy's memory, with some even favoring his
canonization as a saint. With rare exceptions, they still issue
commentaries on President Vladimir Putin's policies, which read like
government press releases. They seem sure that this issue will not
be a deal-breaker in their quest for reunion with the emigres.
Putin's Kremlin will be hoping that they are right. "

=ntnlnews-newsntnl=

Nathaniel Kapner

"WHAT DOES THE MP WANT?"

Post by Nathaniel Kapner »

"A chicken for everyone's pot - A car for everyone's garage - And a
KGB agent in every confessional..."

The following is from a 3 way conversation with ROCOR EX KGB

Konstantin Proebrazhensky and ROCOR Professor Eugene L. Magerovsky:

"WHAT DOES THE MP WANT?"

Nathaniel - "Professor Magerovsky, how would you answer this
question, "What Does The MP Want?""

E.L.M. - "First of all in our opinion ROCOR is the only Canonical
Russian Church. From our point of view if ROCOR joins with the MP it
loses its Canonical status. But from the MP point of view by its
joining with the ROCOR it hopes to acquire Canonical status."

Nathaniel - "That's pretty strong stuff Professor. In other words,
its all over for the ROCOR as far as being "in the Church" if they
merge with the MP. Right?"

E.L.M. - "Absolutely. For our bishops to be calling the MP the
Mother Church is to have it all upside down. The Bolshevik-owned
Sergius Stragorodsky's DECLARATIION of 1927 was nothing less than a
pact with the Anti Christ. Thus on July 16, 1927 the "Mother Church"
ceased to be.

"Then for some 16 years this newly-formed "Soviet Church" as all
Russians call it, was in a nebulous state. When Stalin needed to
resurrect "The Church" he used this very "Segianist Entity" - not
the Church of Patriarch Tikhon. Therefore the MP's claim to be
the "Mother Church" is baseless."

Nathaniel - "What about the Catacomb Church? Aren't they the "Mother
Church?"

E.L.M. - "They are called the "Catacomb Church" for simply that -
because they operate "in the catacombs." If there is an
existent "Mother Church" it is us the ROCOR, for we find our roots
in the Tikhon Patriarchy which had its inception in 1917/1918."

Nathaniel - "From your perspective Konstantine, as an ex KGB agent,
what does the MP want in pursuing this union with the ROCOR?"

EX KGB Proebrazhensky - "For the KGB, or as we prefer to call it
now, the "Spetz-Sluzhby," the "Special Services," the MP is a very
useful tool. First of all the Union will be a political feat for the
Russian government. They will be able by this union to present to
the Russian people free currency with the American dollar as well as
easy access to America and the West, by which the Russian citizen
can have a share in the "good life."

"Second the Russian state will have through an MP/ROCOR union, an
oppurtunity for extensive ROCOR property take-overs on American and
Western soil. For all "Russian held-properties" on foreign soil are
automatically owned by the Russian State. And we all know from the
two MP property takeovers of ROCOR-holdings in the Holy Land, that
the MP does not scruple to grab what they can and when they can.

"Finally, and this is the most terrifying and alarming. Because of
this union, the KGB-FSB will use this newly acquired "broad field of
interest" to recruit and plant KGB-FSB cooperators from and into the
ROCOR episcopacy, priesthood, and diaconate. Nothing will be held
sacred any longer including the "confessional." No one will ever be
certain whether he or she is confessing to a true priest or a KGB
agent.

"And then there is of course the MP's use of these religious offices
within ROCOR for the KGBs own International Espionage. That is why I
have initiated a Petition with many high-ranking signatures affixed
to it, to the CIA and the National Security Offices of the USA. This
Petition will be presented to these USA Institutions and many others
this week."

Nathaniel - Wow. Yes indeed Konstantine, this is scary.

FOR THE HOLY NEW MARTYRS OF RUSSIA

Subdeacon Nathaniel Kapner
The Eleventh Hour

Nathaniel Kapner

CORNELIA RICE AND THE MP

Post by Nathaniel Kapner »

SUBJECT: CORNELIA RICE AND THE MP

I just got a return call from my Washington Lobbyest Advisor. Check
this out -

EXCERPT FROM http://www.usembassy.ru/bilateral/religious_2005.php

-RUSSIA INTERNATIONAL RELIGIOUS FREEDOM REPORT 2005-
US Department Of State
Released on November 8, 2005

"Many government officials and citizens equate Russian Orthodoxy
with the national identity. This belief manifests itself in the
church-state relationship. For example, the ROC has made special
arrangements with government agencies to conduct religious education
and to provide spiritual counseling.

"These include agreements with the Ministries of Education,
Defense, Health, Internal Affairs, and Emergency Situations,
and other bodies, such as the Federal Tax Service, Federal Border
Service,
and Main Department of Cossack Forces under the
President...

"Public statements by some government officials suggest that
increasingly since 1999, the ROC has enjoyed a status that
approaches Official.

"For example, during President Vladimir Putin's April State of the
Nation address, Patriarch Aleksey II was seated in a place of honor
between Prime Minister Fradkov and the Chairman of the
Constitutional Court, whereas the leaders of the other traditional
religions were seated behind him...."

MY DEAR "PRO MP" ROCOR FRIENDS - Perhaps in the evening you say, "It
will be fair weather for the sky is red?" And in the morning you
say,"It will be foul weather today for the sky is red and lowering?"

But our Savior said, "O ye hypocrites ye can discern the face of the
sky but can ye discern the signs of the times?"

BOTTOM LINE: UNCLE SAM IS WATCHING-UNCLE SAM IS WATCHING-UNCLE SAM
IS WATCHING-UNCLE SAM IS WATCHING-UNCLE SAM WILL BE WATCHING-

By The Prayers Of The Holy New Martyrs Of Russia

=ntnlnews-newsntnl=
The Eleventh Hour

FUll TEXT AT http://www.usembassy.ru/bilateral/religious_2005.php

Dr E.L. Magerovsky
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Posts: 7
Joined: Thu 17 November 2005 2:53 pm

Stalin's church

Post by Dr E.L. Magerovsky »

By ROCOR Dr Eugene L. Magerovsky Ph.D

Stalin's church

Since I have seen that many ROCOR faithful have made the false
observation that "Stalin acted to ease the persecution of the Church
in order to rally the Russian people to fight the Nazi invaders,"
shows me that that these do not know enough about the formation of
"Stalin's church," the Moscow Patriarchy. This "easing" was
nothing of the sort.

Stalin decided to form a church-like organization because there was
a religious renaissance on the territories occupied by the Germans
which Stalin was now reconquering, where churches and small
monasteries reappeared like mushrooms. And now Stalin was in a
quandary whether to close them, as ideologically he should have,
or let them continue, but under the strict tutelage of the regime.
So he chose the second. That was the reason.

The MP was gradually changing during the next 50 yrs, acquiring more
and more the trappings of a church. But still it hadn't shed its
quality of being the hand-maiden of the Russian government whether
[a] a "Soviet" government" or Putin's "Neo-Soviet" government.
That is what "sergianism" is all about. Once it sheds that
"servitude" and repents it would no longer be "Stalin's church."

Some among our ROCOR faithful claim that Stalin's instituting the MP
does not give the Church a "godless" beginning." I disagree. Many of
our hierarchs said that the MP was without grace, including, Met
Anastasi of memory most blessed:

"We must follow the examples of the Moscow saints turning aside
from the dishonesty of those who have now occupied their throne. Oh
if they could but arise; they not only would not recognize any of
their successions, but rather would have turned against them with
severe condemnation."

  • Metropolitan Anastasy (Gribanovsky) (+1965)
    "Address to the Sobor of Bishops, 1959"



To bring the MP, "Stalin's church," into the fold and make it a real
church, you have to begin by getting rid of all the "red" bishops.
And that is only the beginning to prepare the MP to start atoning
for the past fifty years as "Stalin's church."

Alexis II has to atone not only for himself, (which could have been
done privately to his confessor, that is, if he has a "confessor"
besides President Putin), but since he is a Patriarch, he has to
atone for the whole MP establishment which can be done only in a
Sobor setting.

Many, I fear, confuse the Protestant individualized approach
with the Orthodox "Sobor" that is, a "conciliar" one. Acts of our
bishops, metropolitans or patriarchs always have to be "in common"
with the whole Christian populace, rather than as individuals.

We await the day when the Moscow Patriarchy in the person of the
Patriarch, at present, Alexy II, makes a full public atonement in a
SOBOR setting. Until then the MP will remain -"Stalin's church!"

ROCOR(L) Dr Eugene L. Magerovsky (Ph.D. Columbia University 1975,
Russian History and Foreign Affairs)

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