Moderator: Mark Templet
Dear Niphon,
did you actually know Bp. Theodore, or is your information based on second hand knowledge?
If the priest who told me about the Star of David in Bp. Theodore's room is correct, that doesn't exactly sound like something a "fool for Christ" would do. But then again, all my information might be incorrect. On the the other hand, I still don't see a fool for Christ, going to a jurisdiction that was not Orthodox...despite all the problems in Traditional and world Orthodoxy.
Nectarios
No I did not know vladyka Theodore of blessed memory personally,but i know a Vladyka who knew him for many years and also was with him at his repose in New york, and again he didnt go into a jurisdiction, they gave him shelter your or my jurisdiction wouldnt give him..in fact he probally was the reason why this monastery went Orthodox, those not everyday un-ordinary relics of St.Seraphim of Sarov didnt come to stay a while at that skete in austin tx.because it is in the heart of Texas, but because of the ELDER.............
Christ is in our midst!
I can assure you all that the monastery in question, although Western Rite at one time, was indeed Orthodox and not Old Catholic--at one time this group had been under the omophorion of the MP-USA unde +Met.John (Wendsland)...Any other serious inquiries I can take privately. Thank you all for your interest, and +Bishop Theodore was a holy man.
in the LOVE of Christ,
R M Malleev-Pokrovsky
I will be getting to correspondence tommorrow.
Dear R M Malleev-Pokrovsky.
I can assure you all that the monastery in question, although Western Rite at one time, was indeed Orthodox and not Old Catholic--at one time this group had been under the omophorion of the MP-USA unde +Met.John (Wendsland).
I used to attend St. Hilarion's monastery/parish in the early 1990's, and they definitely were not under the Moscow patriarchate. You must have had a different experience. At least here in Austin, they still called themselves 'Old Catholic", were listed that way in the phone book, and on their literature, while simultaneously calling themselves, "Western Rite Orthodox". Look I love these people very much, but if they were Orthodox prior to the Milan Synod, they really came in thru the "back door" so-to-speak. the MP priest who was made a bishop was still a married priest when he was made bishop... IF I recall correctly ( I don't have their original brochure with me at the moment). who made him a bishop? It was not from one of the Traditional or World Orthodox. He was made a bishop from the Old Catholic lineage supposed a part of Antioch. Maybe they were truely Orthodox via Antioch, as I remember their bp. Hilarion telling me of his visit with the Antiochian patriarch. However, it was pretty clear that the Antiochian clergy wanted nothing to do with them and did not consider them one of theirs.
I have nothing against them, nor you, but your information goes directly against the knowledge I have by once being apart of their Parish here in Austin many years ago.
Nectarios
Vladyka Alexander mileant of Blessed Memory wrote this and can be found in his many writings,if they are still on line..
Mid-Twentieth Century.
After the end of World War II, the number of Eastern Orthodox emigrating to the United States increased. Laboring among them were St. Nicholas (Velimirovitch), a Serbian Bishop who had the character of an Apostle (+1956), and Bishop Theodore (Irtel), a monk from the sacred monasteries of Pskov Caves and Valaam in Russia, who worked with St. Nicholas for a time in Canada. During this period several substantial Orthodox seminaries were founded in the U.S.
http://www.fatheralexander.org/booklets ... c517448483
Christ is in our midst!
The Metropolitan of the MP-USA prior to OCA "autocephaly" was +Metropolitan John (Wendland). After "autocephaly" MP-USA was reorganized, effectively became defunct. In this climate in the early 1970s, they kicked loose their Western Rite mission and its heirarch, effectively telling him he was on his own. He was based out of NY/NJ and was responsible for the creation of New Amalfion, Austin. He was a valid MP heirarch, and not "retired" like certain quacks out there. The problem with +Bishop Hilarion's kheiritonia was that there was only one consecrator--they maintained it was an acceptible practice of the pre-schism West. Later, that kheiritonia was regularized by Milan who derives their Apostolic Succession ultimately from ROCOR. I maintained correspondence with Fr. Aidan in the 90s when he was still a Deacon. Having been aware of the "Old Catholics" in the past I too was reticent at the title, but their community used this term not like the Utrecht crowd but moreso like the "Old Rite" uses the term "Old Belief" or "Ancient Orthodoxy." Essentially they had never renounced Orthodoxy or entered into Communion with Old Catholics; indeed, they are survivals of a large segment of a group called the "Old Roman Catholic Church in N America" which entered Orthodoxy in the 1950s and 1960s, at first under the Boundbrook Ukrainians and then under the MP. As explained they were allowed to retain the Western Rite and some still used the term "Old Catholic" in much the same way some of those received into the Metropolia over a century ago insisted on retaining the title "Greek Catholic." Now in 1870 the Synod of Moscow ruled that on N America territory, missionaries would use approve Western Liturgies in the hopes of restoring the Orthodox Church of the West. Minor modifications were to be observed: leavened Hosts, an Epiclesis, ommission of indulgenced prayers, etc. Initially, a modified BCP rite and Tridentine adaptations. Later, earlier versions of the Tridentine rite were authorized, hence Sarum. Also authorized were various "Gallican rites." Now, Austin is officially Byzantine. Fr. Aidan has left to Jordanville, and Milan is in a jurisdictional limbo in potential canonical jeopardy due to at one time being in communion with a "kp" headed by a defrocked "patriarch" with a common law "schema nun" wife. By concelebrating with defrocked schismatics they fell under canonical condemnation--which leaves their khriritonias in doubt. +Hilarion's idiosynrecies on such things as the epiklesis question left things quirky. For the longest time +Hilarion of Manhattan laboured to bring them into ROCOR, but the climate at the time did not permit. They lobbied the Serbs but to no avail...I'm glad they're on their way, but I would like to see Milan incorporated into something motre official like the JP, MP or ROCOR to feel more comfortable.
In the LOVE of Christ,
R M Malleev-Pokrovsky
Just because someone had a relationship with Blanco doesn't discredit that person. Fr. Lazarus (Moore) had dealings with them. Moreover, I have their icon on my wall and its tears in packets--they are miraculous... The icon quiets and blesses our home.
You would be surprised how many Bishops and Priest`s had close ties to Blanco all over the U.s., and when the Icon started Myrrhhing everybody was quick to be a part of them and then the scandal broke and everyone said "oh no,i never knew them".........................Wasnt Blanco under ROCOR-Vitaly ?
