PUTIN - SAINT OR SINNER?

[Nathaniel Kapner]

That's an easy one. Why on earth should you trust Putin, oh ye
Hirearchs of ROCOR? Pick up any newspaper and it will shew thee:

Washington Post Foreign Service
Sunday, January 30, 2000; Page A1
By David Hoffman

"Putin spent 17 years as an agent in the Soviet KGB's foreign
intelligence wing, rising to the rank of lieutenant colonel."*

• Putin, don't you know 'Bishops-Pro-MP,' [for "the children of this
  world are in their generation wiser than the children of light"],is
  a great admirer of Stalin?:

"CONVERGENCE WEEKLY"
www.willthomas.net

Stalin's Ghost
By William Thomas 09/26/04

"A new expression among Russians describes President Putin's rule
as "Stalin lite." "A whiff of Stalinism is now polluting the Moscow
air," reports The Times of London.

"Putin,invoking Stalin’s example, rearming the military, muzzling
the media and revoking free elections, prohibiting privitization,...
are some of the actions taken by Putin.

"Putin has also restored the national anthem chosen by Josef Stalin
along with the red flag as the banner of the Russian army.

"This summer, the Putin government also celebrated the 90th birthday
of Yuri V. Andropov, the merciless head of Putin’s former secret
police employer, the KGB." -

• Would you like so more facts dear Your ROCOR Eminences? How's this
  one?:

www.kremlin.ru

THE PRESIDENT OF RUSSIA
Annual Address to the Federal Assembly
April 25, 2005
The Kremlin, Moscow

Addresses to the Federal Assembly

PRESIDENT VLADIMIR PUTIN:

"Distinguished Members of the Federal Assembly,Citizens of Russia,
In this Address of 2005 I will dwell on a number of fundamental
ideological and political issues...

"I would like to bring those who think this way back to reality, to
the facts. To do so, I will recall once more Russia’s most recent
history.

"Above all, we should acknowledge that the collapse of the Soviet
Union was a major geopolitical disaster of the century." -

• And then there's this one to boot:

WASHINGTON POST

Wednesday, April 27, 2005; Page A22

"WHAT WAS "the greatest geopolitical catastrophe of the century"?
The rise of Nazi Germany? The spread of genocide as a tool of state
power? Some might say it was the crushing of a host of nations by
the totalitarian Soviet Union, at the cost of millions of lives.

"But not Russian President Vladimir Putin. For him, the greatest
catastrophe was not the Soviet Union's rise but its collapse -- an
event that freed 14 of those nations, from Latvia to Kyrgyzstan,
from Moscow's domination. "The old ideals were destroyed," Mr. Putin
lamented during his annual state-of-Russia address on Monday." -

• My dear Your Graces, you know I love and respect you all (mark ye
  not 'mark' ye) but paleeeze realize that Putin is rapidly turning
  your 'Holy Russia' into a neo-Stalinist dictatorship...

-Oh yes, some of you might pose the question: "As long as God
remains God, we have nothing to fear -- right? for the Gates of Hell
shall not prevail against The Church -- right?"

Sbn Me: Yup. However ROCOR Episcopates, the world, the fleshly MP,
and the 'devil' Putin remain what they are, 'lying in wickedness, a
surrogate for the Committee of Religious Affairs, and Stalin's
Ghost.

• So long as ROCOR remains ROCOR, she will not have the gates of
  Hell prevailing against her. But once she enters into communion with
  the great whore - the MP, she will have "rained down upon her along
  with her wicked consort the MP - snares, fire, and brimstone."

I am though, all you dear Vladykas who can still 'Bless!' (mark ye
not 'mark' ye), persuaded of better things for you.

Oh yeah. "putin - saint or sinner?" - 'sinner!'

For the Holy New Martyrs of Russia,

ROAC Subdeacon Nathaniel Kapner
The Eleventh Hour
October 24.31/2005
St. Luke The Evangelist

[spiridon]

The Prayer of St.John Damascene that we pray before sleep says
"to save a righteous man is no great thing, and to have mercy on the pure is nothing wonderful, for they are worthy of thy mercy. But on me,a sinner,show the wonder of thy mercy..if we are granted Pardon and remission of sins, why not PUTIN...he is bowing in the Orthodox church and venerating Holy Relics of those Saints we love and cherish, clearly he has become aquainted with his past and seeking a new life in Christ...I will not be the Judge of him for his past ,for that is clearly trying to do God`s work, and that will never happen..............

[SouthernOrthodox]

Well said Niphon. As I read Good Brother Nathaniel's post, I recalled somewhere I learned how many topics are taken out of context in a speech that was given and then reported by someone in the media. Clearly, Pres. Putins past is colored at best but I was unaware his candidacy for sainthood. God forbid, he of all people should ever turn to the church and dare I say God for he hath sinned and deserves death. Come on lets get real here. It appears the Hierarchs of ROCOR being truly inspired are right on the money and a secular leader is clearing or making the path possible and this is wrong how?

[Грешник]

Why is it that we feel we have the right to judge others based on our own ideals of what they should be like and how they should act. What right do we have? Especially in the case of the Hierarchs of the Church, and especially when we are not dealing here with matters of error, heresy or schism. Is it that easy for us to feel better about ourselves if we tear down another person? Are we not all struggling for the same thing? Is not salvation the ultimate goal of our entire existence?

Wow, I guess when you think of it I guess it's a good thing that people like St. Mary of Egypt, and Saint Paul of Tarsus do not live in our times... Things would be oh so different...

[joasia]

Wow, I guess when you think of it I guess it's a good thing that people like St. Mary of Egypt, and Saint Paul of Tarsus do not live in our times... Things would be oh so different...

That's a very good point Joseph. I have always been inspired by St. Mary of Egypt. And St. Paul is no less of an example.

We have to be cautious of the activities of the political ring, but to pray for their salvation, is to pray for the good of the people, because if the leaders of these political circumstances would turn to God(and we are focusing on the Russian situation here), then the citizens will be blessed.

I have worries and doubts about the political situation concerning the MP and I don't think it will be resolved very soon.

Nathaniel,

your concerns are not alone. Many of us are concerned about the union, but your expressions are disturbing. I see that you do not have peace in your heart. It doesn't mean accepting what is happening, but the way you write is an indication of a very disturbed man. I've read your commentaries on the Orthodox Forum too.

It's not a matter of your beliefs. Many of us believe in the same thing...preserving Orthodoxy. But your view is very judgemental. You give no room for repentence. You give no chance to believe that a man has the chance to turn to God before he dies.

If you think we are being soft in our views, we are not. But, we cannot believe that a man is condemned to hell until the appointed time of death, when he will make his choice. And even then, it is not known to us what that choice is. All that God asks of us is that we pray for each other.

Yes, we must preserve the Orthodox faith and stand strong for the Orthodox belief. But, we cannot forget that those in the position of clergy, whether bishop or priest, are also creations of God and deserve our prayers. Often we tend to forget about the fact that they are souls in the struggle for salvation and look at them as the instigators of destruction. Jesus Christ prayed for those who persecuted Him...we should remember that and pray for those who are lost in this political confusion.

The reading today(Oct. 19/O.C.) is as follows: ( Luke 6;31-36). The reading is for St. John of Krondstadt.

The part I am referring to is as follows: But love your ememies, do good, and lend, hoping for nothing in return; and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High. For He is kind to the unthankful and evil. Therefore, be merciful, just as your Father also is merciful.

Isn't that the example of the lives of all the saints? To follow this faith is to overcome any obsticle of satan. To put this spiritual rule into effect, will bring about the spiritual victory in our lives, because if you think about it, you're only hurting yourself with your negative thoughts. It's not the fact of fighting for the faith...it's the fact of the state of your soul and if your soul is full of anger and resentment, then you're only doing damage to yourself...satan is winning.

Fight for the Orthodox faith, but love those who do not know any better. Pray for them. Prayer is stronger than negative posts. You're only doing damage to your own soul and not doing any good for anybody who reads them.

In Christ,

Joanna