New calendar Greek baptism

[Kollyvas]

It would be good and proper...
R

[Jean-Serge]

Yes, it is common, for instance on the Holy Mountain, to regularize these questionable receptions, so, by extension--if +Bishop Kyrill blesses, such Baptisms can be regularized: it's not that the rite is being repeated but completed.
R

The rite may be completed by chrismation and/or communion... So no use to make a new triple immersion...

[Kollyvas]

Well, Mr. Jean Serge, you are simply wrong: the use is in completing the rite properly and insuring correct Baptism, much like it would be proper if I were Baptised by you and had my Baptism regularized by immersion. The canons and Saints going back before St. Cyprian of Carthage testify to this. You are being tiresome and inaccurate.
R

[Jean-Serge]

No you are inaccurate. Please give us the quatations of the canons please... I you give the canosn you see that some heretics were bqptized, other chrismated, and a letter of a Pope mentionned in some cases only a profession of faith... There are multiple ways...

By the way it is ridiculous to baptized someone who has already communed...

[Kollyvas]

Then the Kollyvades Fathers and Athonites are ridiculous?! Humble yourself. A cursory reading of St. Nicholas Cavasilas whose work LIFE IN CHRIST is authoritative on Baptism grants one the understanding that Baptism is death of the old sinful man and the rebirth of the new man in Christ Jesus, that Chrismation is enlivening by the Holy Spirit and that Holy Eucharist is Enhypostasis in Christ Jesus. This is spoken in modern idiom by Archimandrite Vasileios in HYMN OF ENTRY. The stress here is on an ontological transformation which is not the product of half steps but on a full fledged REBIRTH and TRANSFORMATION in Christ Jesus: theosis is not magical nor has it a part with survivals of the former life of sin. Likewise, if our recpetions be somehow compromised, could not also our wills, our demeanours be not fully oriented to the New Adam? That means PRECISELY that the rites in toto comprise initiation into the Church, and that, yes, by oikonomia dictated by the Bishops "shortcuts" may be taken and mystagogically the effect be the same; however, if a Bishop wills as in the CASE OF LAY BAPTISM, the rite may be completed so that the initiation be FULL AND PROPER in accordance with the rite set down by the HOLY CHURCH IN THE HOLY SPIRIT. The rite of initiation is precisely COMPLETED so that the rebirth in the Body be full and proper. In other words, akriveia in the rite be observed versus oikonomia. AKRIVEIA IS ALWAYS AN OPTION AND ALWAYS PREFERED AND ONLY "ridiculous" TO THOSE NOT FULLY ORTHODOX. I have mentioned the book before--I CONFESS ONE BAPTISM--read it and educate yourself.
R
Here are a few links to educate you in your ecumenist morass:
http://orthodoxinfo.com/ecumenism/tikhon_response.aspx
...I have one last story to relate: Once someone came to receive Communion from Archimandrite Sophrony. He was about to give him Communion, but then drew the spoon back and he kept going back and forth with the spoon. Finally he asked this person: "Were you Baptized Orthodox or Protestant?" This man was suffering from a very serious loss of faith and Archimandrite Sophrony saw a light coming upon him and diminishing. But the point behind this story is that by the light he saw on those who came to Communion, Archimandrite Sophrony would know if they were baptized Orthodox, Catholic or Protestant. What does God want?...

http://orthodoxinfo.com/ecumenism/strictness.aspx
...I will now quote from his commentary on the forty-seventh Apostolic canon: "Baptism," he writes, "is an essential condition for entry into the Church and for becoming a true member thereof. It must be celebrated according to the Church's teaching (Apost. canons 49-50) and only such baptism is called true according to this canon... From true baptism the canon distinguishes false baptism which has not been performed by an Orthodox priest according to the Church's teaching, and which not only does not cleanse a man from sin but, on the contrary, defiles him" (op. cit,Vol. I, p. 117)....

http://orthodoxinfo.com/ecumenism/methi ... ptism.aspx
...Baptism is not a practice required by the Church, but is, “rather, the Church’s foundation. It establishes the Church” (p. 26). Here, the notion that Baptism is not the “initiatory” Mystery whereby we are introduced into the Church, but the foundation of the Church, is presented as the truth....

...“Baptism was never understood as a private ceremony, but rather as a corporate event” (p. 13). This means that the Baptism of catechumens was “the occasion for the whole community’s repentance and renewal” (p. 13). One who is Baptized “is obliged to make his own the community’s common faith in the Savior’s person and promises”...

http://orthodoxinfo.com/ecumenism/bapti ... ology.aspx

http://orthodoxinfo.com/ecumenism/baptism.aspx
... St. Diadochus of Photiki:

Before holy Baptism, grace encourages the soul from the outside, while Satan lurks in its depths, trying to block all the noetic faculty's ways of approaching the Divine. But from the moment that we are reborn through Baptism, the demon is outside, grace is within. Thus whereas before Baptism error ruled the soul, after Baptism truth rules it. Nevertheless, even after Baptism Satan (can) still act upon the soul....

If my reading of the Holy Fathers is correct, what the saving acts of Christ make possible is the appropriation of grace by man himself—making "grace his own," which in turn totally renews and transforms the entire person. That is to say, a real metaphysical, ontological change can now take place in the baptized person, if—as St. Gregory Nyssa tells us in his Catechetical Oration—he lives virtuously and makes his baptism effective in Faith and the spiritual life....

...Orthodox baptism does what Christ, the Apostles, and the Church always intended it to do—it transforms man from within, totally renewing the true human nature and opening the way for potential communion with the divine...

http://orthodoxinfo.com/ecumenism/erick ... linos.aspx
...there is a linguistic misinterpretation of the term Baptism (which derives from the Greek verb, baptizein). In Ancient Greek, as well as in Koine, baptizo means bouto (to dip into water, to immerse), and baptisma means boutegma (a derivative of bouto), that is, immersion. In the West, however, the derivative terms Baptism and Baptize lost their original meaning, and only in German is the term Taufe directly connected with the term tauchen, which corresponds to the Biblical-Patristic understanding of the term baptizein. ...

...Father Metallinos continued: But underlying this attachment [to heterodox baptism—Trans.] is an ulterior motive of an ecclesiological nature: If one accepts a heretical baptism as valid in and of itself, he accepts also the priesthood of the clergyman who administers it, and ultimately the Eucharist that such a clergyman celebrates, too. Such is the path of ecumenical dialogue, and especially of dialogue with the Roman Catholic Church. Father Metallinos concluded: For this reason, permit me, without regard to the person of Professor Erickson, whom I love as a fellow Orthodox—although I have not had the honor of making his personal acquaintance—, to express here, as well, my strong misgivings about well-known personalities who enter Orthodoxy, but behave in such an ecumenical fashion, thereby revealing their deeper agenda. The great Philhellene, Lord Frederick (Demetrios) Guilford, son of an English Prime Minister, himself asked, in 1791, to be Baptized (by triple immersion) in Kerkyra (Corfu), since he had not received an ecclesiastically canonical baptism in his former church (he was an Anglican)! (Bishop Kallistos [Ware] of Diokleia has written a special study in this regard.) ...

...Homily 25 on St. John, 2 (Patrologia Græca, Vol. LIX, col. 151): For just as, when we immerse our heads in the water, the old man is buried as in a tomb, and, descending below, is wholly concealed each time; so then, as we emerge, the new man rises in its stead. As it is easy for us to immerse ourselves and to emerge again, so it is easy for God to bury the old man and show forth the new....

[Jean-Serge]

I have mentioned the book once before--I CONFESS ONE BAPTISM--read it and educate yourself: you reek of the ecumenists...
R

I read the Canons, read the Pedalion... I will come with obvious evidence... Good bye "Mister I know everything"

[Kollyvas]

Evidently, you're not reading the same Rudder as the Fathers have handed down, viz. St. Cyprian, St. Basil, the Kollyvades Fathers, etc. A sign that a definite adieu to you is quite apt, Mr. "I want to reform the Orthodox Church"...
R
AND THE QUESTION REMAINS TO YOU: lay Baptism being acceptible and some Catacomb Baptisms as well which involved a spoonful of water, is it proper, prudent and better that the rites be observed in strictness and complete?! By your reasoning which does reek of renovationists and ecumenists, it would be totally unnecessary. By extension then, ordinations, matrimony, all Mysteries observed in irregular and incomplete ways have validity. The question that is begged: what standard of ORTHOPRAXIA then is legitimate if any and all abberation be legitimate?! Why Orthodoxy?! Moreover, your implication that completion of the Rite of Baptism is somehow an inane redundancy throws into question your understanding of as well as appraisal of Orthodox Baptism as lacking a basic understanding of human anthropology viz. the God-man. It is patently offensive--Orthodox Baptism can never be superfluous. No, we see the sacriledgiousness of renovationism, don't we?!

The paucity of your thought stands naked in the face of one REITERATED question:

If Baptism means rebirth in Christ Jesus and entrance into His Body, the Church, HOW IN THE WORLD CAN IT TAKE PLACE OUTSIDE OF IT OR HOW IS IT POSSIBLE TO BE SIDESTEPPED?! Your fatuous and untended readings of the sources you espouse dishonours them and defines the dubiousness of your comprehensionsion, for you lack all coherence. And the incoherent simply abdicate authority in what they address, FOR THEY MAKE NO SENSE.