New calendar Greek baptism

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Joseph
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Post by Joseph »

In addition to the proper form or mode of baptism there is another crucial issue here:

The Faith held by the Greek Priest and his Bishop?
and the Faith of the one Baptized?

If one or the other does not hold the Orthodox Faith, then no amount of water will make an Orthodox Baptism. If the priest and his bishop have abandoned the Orthodox Faith then there is no baptism. If the one being baptized has not from his heart renounced the devil and united himself to Christ, then his baptism is unto condemnation rather than salvation.

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joasia
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Post by joasia »

If the one being baptized has not from his heart renounced the devil and united himself to Christ, then his baptism is unto condemnation rather than salvation.

He said the words, but he doesn't believe in it.

His mother is Muslim and his father Jewish. He's having his father stand in as koubaro for the wedding. Her sister will be the koubara.

Joanna

Create in me a clean heart, O God, and renew a right spirit within me. (Ps. 50)

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joasia
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Post by joasia »

I'm losing heart very quickly. But, I had promised I would go. I will verify if the priest will allow it, for sure. If so, I will not go to the ceremony. But, how do I explain it to her.

She's depending on my support. The issue of the baptism seems two-sided according to the responses here, but I'm sure the issue of the marriage is cut and dry.

The wedding is Nov 5th. I'll ride it out till that week and see what their final decision is. I don't want to upset her. She's a nervous wreck already.

Joanna

Create in me a clean heart, O God, and renew a right spirit within me. (Ps. 50)

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Nikodemus
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Post by Nikodemus »

Jean Serge

There are many examples of economia in history. The arians converted en masse to orthodoxy and the church could not baptise so many at once....so economia was used and they (who before did not belive even in the trinity) were accepted only by chrismation. But as St Nikodemus writes, a similar economia cannot be used to songle converts who should have the sacrament in the traditional, orthodox way. So, as I understand the example you gave, it was a question of economia. But now, when we can baptise propely and according to the orthodox intepretation of the canons, we have no excuses to baptise with sprinkling or just use chrismation. It is right that you cannot be baptised after you received the Holy Mystery of Chrismation, or any other sacrament. But here there is also different opinions.

Let me give you a example that I heard from a monk. There was a former catholic who converted in the ultra liberal Russian Church in Paris...parisjurisdiction under EP. He only confessed his sins and were received that way into the church. He tasted the mystery of Eucharist of course, but wasnt even chrismated. He then went to Jerusalem on a travel and told all this to a priestmonk who chrismated him. Then, on another trip to Athos he went to Esphigemenou monastery and they gave him baptism. So this individual converted three times to orthodoxy.

Personally I think he became orthodox at the second time. But if I were him, I could easily understand why he wanted baptism in the proper way. Now, it is not his fault or the more strict orthodox monks fault that they baptised him again. It is because this luke warm liberals that abuses the mysteries.

Exact science must presently fall upon its own keen sword...from Skepsis there is a path to "second religiousness," which is the sequel and not the preface of the Culture.

Oswald Spengler

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SouthernOrthodox
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Post by SouthernOrthodox »

Joanna, I can appreciate your dilemma and agree somewhat to what the majority have said, but stop and think for a second. Would you go to the wedding as a valiant defender of the faith to root out liberal misgivings of what I am sure these folks in their church believe to be correct or attempting to be. Or would you go with a Christian heart to support your friend. I had the opportunity to attend a wedding of a family member who was not married in our ultra-conservative church, but was married in a "liberal" Orthodox Church. I missed allot of the ceremony because I was so taken back with the pews they had in the church. Good luck in your choice.

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joasia
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Post by joasia »

SouthernOrthodox,

I doubt I would be doing any defending of the faith or rooting anything out. But being present might make me look like I accept it.

Joanna

Create in me a clean heart, O God, and renew a right spirit within me. (Ps. 50)

Joseph
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Post by Joseph »

Ultra conservative Orthodox?
Liberal Orthodox?

Either one is Orthodox or not.

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