Statements On uniate ENCROACHMENT On Orthodox Territory

[Kollyvas]

Dearest Milla,

I find so heartbreaking your breathless attempts to state something which makes so little sense. Perhaps you should come to chai one day and we'll share a biscuit and discuss how and what Orthodoxy is and how it is viewed by some and others. And I'll bore you with some Russian poetry--I'm thinking Blok--and so effetely show you all the mundaneness of a civility which is so out of place it loses all voice that it makes pretense to. You see I too can underwhelm. I hope you can appreciate what I am saying so as not to diminish but to awaken your sensibilities and let it be all too palpable how the dire things I discuss I do have a sovereign opinion on. I invite you also to such sovereignty. So perhaps a bit of beef pirogh and afterward napoleon tort will soften your disposition and lend it something akin to...sufficiency. Prompt RSVPs are appreciated. Thank you.

ORTHODOXIA I THANATOS!
Rostislav Mikhailovich Malleev-Pokrovsky

[CGW]

The question is a matter of TRUTH(.)

If it is, then the truth is that it is perfectly reasonable from a cranky "Orthodox are heretics" point-of-view to ignore Orthodox claims for territory because, after all, they are heretics and heresy has no rights. It is only ecumenism that grants Orthodoxy any territory! This is the truth simply of people acting out the consequences of what they believe. Everyone believes they are in the True Church, so everyone is going to act accordingly.

No, the latin heretics or the protestant sectarians have no place on Orthodox territory, curiously coming into a situation after over 70 years of coerced secularization and martyrdoms and political unrest to steal souls and keep them from the Truth.

Well, that's what you say. But as far as reality is concerned, the truth is that Orthodox churches are reaping the benefits of ecumenist Protestants who do respect Orthodoxy and thus do not poach on its territory. (And yes, not all Protestants think this way.) And those nasty Latins believe that they are bringing the Truth, and not "stealing souls", of course, same as you. That's the thing: your argument here is so utterly egocentric that you do not appear to be able to conceive of what the world would be like if everyone argued as you do. And what would it look like? Well, for one thing, everyone would be especially busy out there poaching Orthodox souls!

[Kollyvas]

Are there protestants in here trying to nail something to the doors of our churches? Can it be one of them is here thinking we actually care what he has to say?! I particularly don't. LOL!
R
I choose not to dignify your loathing with further comment.

[CGW]

If you'll hold true to your word this time, that means I'll get to have the last word. And that is this:

I don't "loathe" Orthodoxy, and while I doubt that I'd ever want to know you personally, that's beside the point too. And as far as nailing things to doors is concerned, (a) you apparently have no understanding of the historical context of Luther's act, and (b) this isn't about the correctness of your version of Orthodox teaching anyway.

Instead, the issue is this: on the one hand you demonize the "heretics", and then on the other you act as if there is something remarkable about them acting "demonically". That is rank hypocrisy. You condemn ecumenism, and then you turn around and demand that they concede what only ecumenists need concede. That again is rank hypocrisy.

I'm not here to teach you Orthodoxy; but I am here to limit some of the secular nonsense that is spouted in Orthodoxy's name by her would-be defenders. If you intend to argue that you don't have any obligation to defend secular truths (because you're Orthodox and I'm not) and that I have to heed you because you're Orthodox, but you don't have to return the favor-- well, guess what: more hypocrisy.

Just think of me as a toll house, if it helps.

[ioannis]

And those nasty Latins believe that they are bringing the Truth, and not "stealing souls", of course, same as you. That's the thing: your argument here is so utterly egocentric that you do not appear to be able to conceive of what the world would be like if everyone argued as you do.

Heretics can believe they are in the True church if they like; but the fact remains that they are not. And nobody who is in the True Church is obliged to pretend.

Now, "if everyone argued as" I do then that would be a great thing, because then ecumenism would die and at least people would believe in their faith. Instead, what we have today, are people who only really believe in selling their faith for earthly benefits: recognition, peace (which is not a good thing in this case), ease of conscience, ect.

If the Latins come into a country that has been traditionally Orthodox, then the Orthodox should launch education programs in their schools and other publications of why the Latins are heretics and that they are seeking the destruction of souls. This rather than deluding the people into thinking it is all the same - what defense will people have then?

[CGW]

Heretics can believe they are in the True church if they like; but the fact remains that they are not.

And it is, of course, a fact that is in dispute, so trying to base an argument on that claim is essentially worthless in any context larger than your own church.

And nobody who is in the True Church is obliged to pretend.

If there is any pretense here, it is in the implied assertion that the Romans know that they are wrong. Instead, they "know" that they are right, and if this be error, it doesn't affect that they will act from what they "know" and not what you "know".

Now, "if everyone argued as" I do then that would be a great thing, because then ecumenism would die and at least people would believe in their faith.

If everyone argued as you do, then there would be constant religious war.

Instead, what we have today, are people who only really believe in selling their faith for earthly benefits: recognition, peace (which is not a good thing in this case), ease of conscience, ect.

I think you are wrong, but I'm not moved to argue the point.

If the Latins come into a country that has been traditionally Orthodox, then the Orthodox should launch education programs in their schools and other publications of why the Latins are heretics and that they are seeking the destruction of souls. This rather than deluding the people into thinking it is all the same - what defense will people have then?

Well, (a) education is fine, but saying that it is all different, that is just untrue.

[Kollyvas]

the augsburg confession and its modern day decadence is neither welcome nor taken seriously here. it would do well for the unwashed to not confront their gracelessness here so much as to overcome their pride and wounded souls and either finally accept or reject Truth. an email group, however, is not such a clinic. how the demons would rage in the small minds of heretics!
R
http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/inquirers/t ... ponse.aspx