Help!!!

[Joseph]

But in your comments you ruled them out as "Orthodox". How is their intercommunion, etc different from the rest? I"m trying to understand why they shouldn't be considered while others who do the same things should be considered.

[Esteban]

If in your opinion their praxis is methodologically indistinguishable from, say, that of the Serbian Church, more power to you. That is not my problem, and I'm not going to be coaxed into debating what, to me, are non-issues. Sorry, but I'm not usually the one to bite.

In any case, I hope that my original comments were in some way helpful to "Elder Cleopa", and this his live exposure to The Church may be better than what he can see in this thread.

[Joseph]

You are the one who said we should not judge and yet you judged the one group to be not Orthodox. You say it is because they commune Latins and have other non-Orthodox practices. I am simply trying to understand what your basis is for judging one group to be un-Orthodox and the other groups, who have similar practices and issues, to be Orthodox. You made the judgment and said Elder Cleopa should stay away from the one group while warning us that we shouldn't make such judgments against the Greek Church. Now you avoid answering questions about your own statements by pretending to be above arguing.

[ElderCleopa]

Julio,
Thank you for your advice. I am going to visit Fr. Suciu on recommendation from a priest friend of mine, Fr. Iulian Anitei. Fr. Iulian is the priest who presides at Annunciation Chapel when he is in town and is a very good friend to me. If Fr. Suciu is anything like Fr. Iulian, he is a great man in my book. St. Sophia's is a very mixed congregation. There are many Greeks as well as many non-Greeks. I do not think I will encounter a problem.

I don't think that I will be visiting the UAOC parish. I have heard nothing but "vagante" from anyone I have talked to about this issue. They are a group that is a part of UAOC-C. Which is a splinter group of the original UAOC. I think I will stick with GOA if no Traditional Orthodox parishes are to be found in San Antonio.

By the way, Julio, I am a Puerto Rican too. My last name is Davila and my family is from Ponce.

[Esteban]

I'm glad to hear that. May God bless and reward your efforts as you approach the Ark of Salvation, the Holy Church!

As I said before, I've met Father Daniel Suciu, I have heard him speak, and I have seen him serve, and again, he is a pious and learned man in whose guidance you can trust.

By the way, Julio, I am a Puerto Rican too. My last name is Davila and my family is from Ponce.

GET OUT OF HERE!!! If you ever come to Puerto Rico, let me know, so that you can attend Divine Services here! Our Protinica's family is also from Ponce.

[Nathaniel Kapner]

ORTHODOXY OR DEATH WROTE:

"Those who make themselves the measure of Orthodoxy introduce new teachings. Orthodox Christians listen to the Holy Fathers and Councils of the Church." Excerpt

Very well said, O.O.D. May I add one thought?

St Paul wrote, "Now I praise you, brethren, that ye keep the ordinances as I delivered them unto you." (I Corinthians 11:2)

We all know that the word "delivered" here is the Greek word "parodosis," meaning, "that which is handed down."
St Luke begins his Gospel with the very same concept: "Forasmuch as many have set forth those things which are believed among us, even as they were 'delivered' unto us."

We have this exact same concept in the Old Testament : "And the Lord said to Moses, I will give thee a Law that thou mayest teach them. And they shall teach their sons, and their sons' sons." Exodus 24:12;Deut 4:9

NO wonder that St Paul calls St Timothy, "mine own son," and then goes on to say, keep inviolate that deposit [teaching] that was 'delivered' unto you."

This then is the Orthodox way of what we are to believe. NOT what we come up with on our own through our own thought. We Orthodox Christians, unlike the Protestants, always ask ourselves, is this teaching consonant with what was held by the Fathers before us? That is, we heed the command, "Remember the days of old, consider the years of many generations: Ask thy Father, and he shall tell thee; thy elders, and they shall show thee." Deuteronomy 32:7

We just witnessed the Church's rebuke of a 'new' teaching, the Name-worshipping heresy. The promulgator of this heresy, ROAC's Gregory Lourye DID NOT, "Remember the days of old and ask his elders that they might show him." For this teaching was never 'handed down to us" through 'the years of many generations.' And thus, the Church rightly stopped his heresy-teaching mouth after many rebukes and warinings.

Let us then, that we might shun the Church's rebuke, hold to that which has been handed down to us, not forming our own opinions, but making captive all of our thoughts and opinions into the captivity of Christ through the mind of His Holy Orthodox Church.

Nathaniel Kapner
(Milton L Kapner)
Leadville CO

[CGW]

Very well said, O.O.D. May I add one thought?

Please: at least don't co-opt the threads of others.