Deposition of Fr Gregory (Lourie) of St Petersburg

[DavidHawthorne]

David wrote:

I work out my salvation in my local ROCOR parish and won't "protestantize" Orthodoxy by straining out the gnat of my own understanding of the holy canons while swallowing the camel of schism.

Wow. That's an interesting perception. Are you a writer? I couldn't write like that. I'm a meat and potatoes writer...except on Wednesdays and Fridays, of course.

No- I'm no writer. Just an idiot who's smart enough to realize that only grace has brought me to Orthodoxy when so many loved ones with purer hearts have not come and realizing that my pride and temperamant are still strong enough that I could pick and choose the jurisdiction that suits me best if I wanted to "personalize" my Faith.

[Suaidan]

Then doesn't this mean that Vladyka Valentine is saying that HE is PART of the problem? Why doesn't he just remove the barriers for HIS Church?

He has. That's part of why Gregory of Colorado was removed last year-- for refusing to recognize the mysteries of other True Orthodox jurisdictions. So members of True Orthodox jurisdictions are free to receive the mysteries in our parishes if they have no other parish to go to, but we won't declare specific ones "grace-filled" and others "grace-less". The reason for this is that due to administrative problems in True Orthodox jurisdictions, it's not as simple a question as "ok, WE say this one is Orthodox and THIS one isn't." That was precisely what Gregory of Buena Vista tried to introduce on a large scale; and it failed miserably.

The question of what defines a True Orthodox Church is not practically difficult either. Most people know, for example, that the Chrysostomos Synod confesses Orthodoxy. They also know the Lamian Synod confesses Orthodoxy. These two jurisdictions feel the other is schismatic. Same with ROCOR (V). They feel we are schismatic. We do not feel the same about them (at least not towards us.) And so on and so forth. Especially in cases where there are many True Orthodox of different jurisdictions in one area, there is usually a great deal of interaction between them. But for us to begin saying "aha! it's that one" from the other side of the globe, not in matters of faith, but in matters of administrative disorder, is absolutely ridiculous.

[TomS]

He has. That's part of why Gregory of Colorado was removed last year-- for refusing to recognize the mysteries of other True Orthodox jurisdictions. So members of True Orthodox jurisdictions...

Okay. This is good news. But WHO decides just what is a True Orthodox jurisdiction? Is there a litmus test? Is it tied to the calender? To teh rejection of ecumenism?

Is the eucharist in the GOA and OCA Churches valid?

[joasia]

Tom

It depends on who you're asking.

[Joseph]

I know of some True Orthodox parishes/priests who commune anyone who follows the Old Calendar and is not in communon with Ecumenism.

[尼古拉前执事]

The Lamians are to the GOC as HOCNA is to the ROCOR.

[Nathaniel Kapner]

Congradulations to Metropolitan Valentin, for his definitive statements against the heretical teachings of Gregory Lourie. This deposition of Lourie has been a long time coming, ever since 2001, when Vladimir Moss headed up an investigation of Louries promulgation of the 1914 name-worshipping heresy that was soon after condemned by Constantinople and soon after by Moscow.

And now in 2005, Suzdal has reaffirmed that "if any preach any other Gospel, let him be anathema." Deposing Lourie is the corrective measure to prevent such a severe censure. May Gregory Lourie heed it, and use it for his salvation. And may we all be humble to not promote our own opinions, but rather, to embrace and affirm the "mind of the Church."

Sbn Nathaniel Kapner (Milton L Kapner)
Leadville CO