Which Trad Groups...

[drewmeister2]

Which traditionalist groups don't associate with other Trad or "World" Orthodox groups?

Thanks!

[Justin Kissel]

While there are exceptions to every rule, generally speaking the world Orthodox play nice with the world Orthodox, and the trads reject just about everyone, including (and sometimes most vehemently) other trads.

[尼古拉前执事]

... and the trads reject just about everyone, including (and sometimes most vehemently) other trads.

While there are some traditionalists that indeed do this, I would not say this is the rule at all. There may not be communion, but this does not mean complete rejection.

[Nikodemus]

This is my private understanding...perhaps it is wrong, and I hope someone may correct me if I am.

The different trad groups are divided according to how they view the question of the existence of grace in the mysteries in the "world Orthodox churches".

Most extreme, matthewites declared that grace ceased to be present in world orthodoxy after the introduction of the old calendar.

Then, other groups like GOC, Russian autonomous church and ROCOR-V say that it ceased to be full grace in the mysteries because of ecumenism...the heresy of all heresies.

Then we have ROCOR- L and the TOC: s of Bulgaria, Rumania and Greece (Cyprianos) who are old calendarists, traditionalists, but say that there exists grace in world orthodoxy

[OrthodoxyOrDeath]

AMDG,

You are wrong about this.

All "traditionalists" have, with few exceptions, the exact same ecclesiology - that there is no Mysteriological Grace (the Grace of the Church) with heretics.

The only exception I know of are the Kyprianites. ROCOR for the record declared they have the exact same ecclesiology as them).

And no "traditionalist" believes they are the "last and only".

[1937 Miraculous Cross]

Dear AMDG,

You said:

Most extreme, matthewites declared that grace ceased to be present in world orthodoxy after the introduction of the old calendar.

...I'm certain you mean the "new" calendar and not 'old" calendar.

Just a bit of a correction here, but it was the original three bishops who returned to the Old Calendar Church (Bps. Chrysostom of Florina, Germanos of Demetrias and Chrysostom of Zakynth) who confessed in 1935 that the State Church of Greece was without Grace because of adopting the New Calendar, as they were applying the anathema of the 16th Century Pan Orthodox Council. Bp. Matthew, in keeping with the 1935 Declaration maintained the same ecclessiology.

the "Matthewites" did not declare that Grace ceased to be present in "world Orthodoxy" because of the New Calendar. Their pronouncements were against the State Church of Greece. Years later, the TOC (Matthewites) synod declared ecumenism a heresy. In fact, when the Matthewites were looking for bishops to co-consecrate with Bp. Matthew, they indeed did look to even the various Patriarchates that were still Old Calendar. Of course these avenues did not work out either.

By and large, the GOC and TOC have the same ecclessiology in regards to World Orthodoxy. Hopefully, the differences between the GOC and TOC (both of Greece) can peacefully be resolved. I think the problems within the Traditionalists will be because of the various splinter groups who have been deposed and maintain parasynagogue status.

in Christ,
Nectarios

[Nikodemus]

1937 Miraculous Cross

I understand that the difference between TOC of the Matthewites and GOC of Chrysostomos now have the same ecclesiology, but fight over other issues as the validity of the consecration of a Matthewite bishop with just one bishop who performed the service. Or am I wrong? I also dont understand how the Matthewites canonically could seek communion with other patriarchates who in their turn were in communion with the State Church?

OOD

You mean that GOC and TOC (M) have the same ecclesiology, but historically didnt GOC break communion with the mathewites becuase of their "extreme" position.