John Romanides calls Traditionalists crypto-Augustinians

[Ephraem]

This new phenomenon of Anti-Ecumenical Augustinians are headed in Greece by the so-called Orthodox Metropolitan Cyprian of Fili and in the U.S.A by the so-called Orthodox Archbishop Chrysostom of Aetna, California. They have been caught trying to establish their Augustinian heresy posing as enemies of Ecumenism in such countries like Russia, Bulgaria, Serbia, Georgia etc. This Cyprian of Fili had originally been a new calendar priest of the official Church of Greece. But some years ago he joined an Old Calendar Church. It is suspected that behind this movement are those who are trying to penetrate Orthodox countries with Augustine's heresies under the guise of Traditional Old Calendar Anti-Ecumenical Orthodoxy. Posing as very super-conservative traditional Orthodox, Cyprian of Fili and Chrysostomos of Aetna have been quite busy trying to promote and defend Augustine's heresies among the Orthodox as one can readily see in their publications.

Does anyone know exactly which Augustinian heresies are being attributed to the Traditionalists (or at least the Cyprianites)? It is not clear to me. I have not heard this explained anywhere.

[StephenG]

I am unable to answer your question but do know that the Fili synod do honour the Blessed Augustine of Hippo. It would appear to be a leap to then see them as propagating his errors under the cover of Tradition, unless the good Father John Romanides is able to explain his hypotheses.

[Priest Siluan]

The John Romanides refers to group of Met Kiprianos, not to other ones traditionalist. This is because they say that the Church is beyond limit of the Orthodox Church. Met Kiprianos said " healthy parts and sick parts", the sick parts would be the Protestants, Catholic etc... Well, Blessed Agustin said that the grace was but beyond limit of the Church, and that the baptism of the schismatics and some heretics have the Grace.

The Augustinian eclesiology ( ecclesiologia of the Catholics) is very similar to the Kiprianita.

What the Father J Romanides affirms is the reason because most (all) the traditionalist ones rejects Kiprianite eclesiology

[gggxgggx]

Met. Cyprian and his synod do refer to "healthy" and "ailing" members of the Church...but they do not view the protestants and/ or catholics as part of the Church in anyway whatsoever...the "sick" part they refer to are those infected with the ecumenical heresy who have yet to be cast from the Church by a Council...according to Met. Cyprian and his synod these ecumenists have broken their communion with the Head of the Church-Christ by their heresies...but because of the position they hold in the Church organization as either bishops or priests they still perform valid Mysteries...a similar example is when Caiphas was thinking about killing God and was an enemy of Jesus...of course Caiphas was not in union with God, but the Bible says that because he was high priest he prophesied that one man would die for the people...so he prophesied because of his position-although personally he was an antichrist ans was plotting to kill Christ...
Met. Cyprian and his synod take the right position on the issue of Grace in the Churches which have hierarchs infected with ecumenism...and thhis position can be supported by the Bible (such as the example of Caiphas) and from Church tradition and from the writings of the Saints...

[GOCPriestMark]

...a similar example is when Caiphas was thinking about killing God and was an enemy of Jesus...of course Caiphas was not in union with God, but the Bible says that because he was high priest he prophesied that one man would die for the people...so he prophesied because of his position-although personally he was an antichrist ans was plotting to kill Christ...
Met. Cyprian and his synod take the right position on the issue of Grace in the Churches which have hierarchs infected with ecumenism...and thhis position can be supported by the Bible (such as the example of Caiphas) and from Church tradition and from the writings of the Saints...

Anyone can prophesy, even an ass, but that doesn't make it a High Priest. Caiphas prophesied unknowingly:

And one of them, [named] Caiaphas, being the high priest that same year, said unto them, Ye know nothing at all,
Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not.
And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation

How is unknowingly prophesying equal to perfoming the Mysteries of God in the Orthodox Church? Have any of the Holy Fathers used this Scripture in the same manner? It seems to me to be a big jump to then say that those who hold to heretical beliefs will continue to be given Grace in their mysteries. The canon that Met. Kyprianos and his people like to quote so much, about walling off, even states they are walling off from false bishops. False bishops = false mysteries.

Priest Mark Smith
Edmonton

[Nikodemus]

I agree with gggxgggx on this point. TOC of Cyprianos say that there is no grace in protestant churches and in the roman catholic church. But there is grace in the orthodox church and the orthodox church are all of the so called world orthodox churches that are not condemned by a competent synod, and by this synod are declared to be without grace. Until the heretics are officially condemned as heretics, the church has always treated them as bishops. Nestorius and the iconoclasts participated in the councils and were considered bishops. Of course you should not belong to these heretics when the publicly and bareheadedly defend heresy, but you do not have the right to judge them...only a synod has this right. So...I understand Cyprionos position.

Romanides is an excellent theologian, but on this point I sence that he is trying to justify his own decision to be in the state church of Greece.

Me, myself, have sympathy for Cyprianos position, but choose to belong to the Serbian Church, because I am still not sure that these so called world juridictions have offically declared a heresy.

[Priest Siluan]

Met. Cyprian and his synod take the right position on the issue of Grace in the Churches which have hierarchs infected with ecumenism...and thhis position can be supported by the Bible (such as the example of Caiphas) and from Church tradition and from the writings of the Saints...

No, don't deceive you, correct position is that of the Father Romanides, the theology Kiprianita is only in the history of the Church and it is renovacionist and crypto-ecumenist.