Is old-calendarism a path to secterism?

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Nikodemus
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Is old-calendarism a path to secterism?

Post by Nikodemus »

If someone look upon our jurisdictional quarells from outside it may seem that one of the most important topics in orthodox discussion is jurisdiction and canonicity. Protestants would have very easy to accuse of focusing on the wrong things. Personally I think supercorrectness lead to schism within schisms and even more divisions within them. A similar trend is found among Roman Catholic sedevacantists who even elect popes because they cannot belive that a heretic (the vatican council II popes) can be valid popes. Therefore they elect their own popes. At present there are 13 individuals who claim to be peters successor (and most of them live in USA and especially in Montana :mrgreen: ). The roman-catholic sedevacantist fights over issues like: Are the pope formaliter and materialiter in heresy or is he just formaliter in heresy? They argue with clear scholastic arguments, and everyone seems to have very logical proofs for their position. And so do many old calendarist who argues very logical from canons and condemn each other over issues...On Athos some monks even condemnes thos who have wrong ideas abut the Jesus prayer!!!

So did Christ come for this?

I know that this could be intepreted as an superficial and even stupid argument, but from my heart I ask you: Is this the meaning of our faith? Is this how we live the christian life in love and truth?

Exact science must presently fall upon its own keen sword...from Skepsis there is a path to "second religiousness," which is the sequel and not the preface of the Culture.

Oswald Spengler

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Felipe Ortiz
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Post by Felipe Ortiz »

I've just read this talk about the issue:

http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/praxis/rose_raising.aspx

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joasia
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Post by joasia »

I know that this could be intepreted as an superficial and even stupid argument, but from my heart I ask you: Is this the meaning of our faith? Is this how we live the christian life in love and truth?

Very good question. And from my heart, I respond.

I have been reading a book that touches on alot of faith matters. First, the true faith of Christianity is to be in communion with God. Not just the partaking of Holy Communion, but a spiritual unity, which the saints lived. They were LIVING the faith... all of us who are not saints, who do not have the Grace of the Holy Spirit residing in us(as communion with God) are not Living the faith, we are merely observing it by rules and regulations. Living with God is participation of His Grace and yet retaining the individual identity, but the will becomes the same will of God. They had reached the state of Theosis.

That is why a saint who asks God for something will always get exactly what he asked for, because his will for it was also God's will. This is why the saints of the Ecumenical Councils stated that it was right by them and by the Holy Spirit.

True theologians KNOW God, the theologians of the world STUDY about God. There's a big difference. One lives in true knowledge, the other thinks he has knowledge, but is ignorant.

The Athonite monk, Fr. Maximos, in the book, stated that because we are not in a state of dispassion and have not reached Theosis, that we need to be guided by these regulations and even to have icons. Being in Theosis means that the person is absorbed in God's Grace and he sees God and therefore does not need images to bring his heart to the remembrance of God because he is with God. But, we are in a state of ignorance of the knowledge of God and in a state of forgetfulness. That's why an icon will help focus our hearts to remember God.

And it occurred to me that the example can be applied to our loved ones...when we are with them, we don't need to look at their picture to remember them, because they are in our presence. How silly would it be to be sitting in the livingroom with your loved one and keep looking at their picture. Wouldn't they think you were out of it?

And the same with fasting, for example. There are stories of saints going without food and sleep, because they are in the state of Theosis and the Holy Spirit is sustaining their bodies. The material food is not necessary and their bodies are not damaged by lack of food and sleep. If a person went 3 days without sleep, he would have psychological effects, but that doesn't happen to saints. Because one state is without the Grace of God surrounding him and the other one is.

Another example of Theosis is when the saints know what's in our hearts. Since they're in connection with God(for lack of a better term, at this time), and God knows what's in our hearts, then the saints have that knowledge too, when they're given it by God. They will see into the depth of our souls.

What is the truth about our faith?? The truth is that the original sin which is seperation from God is in all of us. That's why the saints teach that we are born with the original sin, because we are already seperated from God. And the purpose of our lives is to attain the Holy Spirit, to reach the state of Theosis(a return to a union with God's Grace), the way He intended it with Adam and Eve. If it wasn't meant to be that way, then God would not have made them that way when He created them, like with the animals. Imagine how different the situations with our synods would be if all the hierarchs had attained the state of Theosis. We'd have only ONE ORTHODOX SYNOD.

The world of "isms" distracts us from that path. Another fascinating comment that Fr. Maximos stated was about idolatry. So many people accuse us of being idolatrers because we venerate icons. Like I mentioned, icons are a way of focusing our hearts towards God. We see the icons, we recognize the image and we reflect. We don't worship the icon as the person. The true idolatry are the "isms". Mankind created the "isms" and made them something to follow and if anybody says anything against them, then they are traitors. These are worldly concerns. God is above "isms". Mankind has come to worship these "isms". And that is where we have lost our spiritual focus.

The book is called: The Mountain of Silence by Kyriacos C. Markides. I recommend this reading for everybody.

Please forgive me for any offense that I may have caused with my illiterate response.

Please pray for me.

God bless.

Create in me a clean heart, O God, and renew a right spirit within me. (Ps. 50)

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Nikodemus
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Post by Nikodemus »

Thank you very much for this answer, I appreciated it and gained many new insights from it. In my orthodox life I sometimes see the truth so clearly, but then, through my sins I loose it. And then, especially after Holy Communion I can see more clear again. This is why I need a spiritual father to guide me..becuase spiritually I am handicapped and need assistans. The saints are the young and healthy, spiritually speaking. We others are the "old and weak". Therefore I think the best answer and most true answer is the attitude Seraphim Rose defended. We simply must say, in our state of blindness, that we many times dont know these difficult questions about jurisdictions and grace...This is the conclusion I draw from this...my former views were sometimes filled with pride becuase of my knowledge of canons...but these canons can only be interpreted correctly by those who live in spirit and truth. So...this is my only conclusion about jurisdiction: I dont know

Exact science must presently fall upon its own keen sword...from Skepsis there is a path to "second religiousness," which is the sequel and not the preface of the Culture.

Oswald Spengler

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