Esphigmenou Declaration on ROCOR

TomS · Post by **TomS** » Thu 2 June 2005 11:26 am

Conspiracy theorists unite!

joasia · Post by **joasia** » Thu 2 June 2005 1:01 pm

CHRIST IS RISEN!

They have tried. And there were certain people that aggrevated the situation. Being in Montreal, we had a more accurate understanding about what was going on, when Bp. Michael was here. He even went, himself, with others to bring Vladika back. The mess that happened then was even reported in our local paper. So, I’m not making this up.

I believe ROCOR-L has enough power to work legally and this way "to liberate" to Vladyka of his "kidnappers"

It only applies in the U.S. Why do you think Luidmilla refuses to return to the states. She will be immediately arrested. Vl. Vitaly is still considered a respectable bishop and if he came to the states then the bishops would take care of him. But, they couldn't get to him because of her. They threw her out and she came back and took Vladika. The bishops asked him to stay, but he said he wanted to go with her. Since she has been with him all these years and the sole controller of his medication, do you think he was really able to see thinks clearly. Afterall, he let her stay in his quarters(not in the same room, of course) and that is forbidden isn't it, unless the woman is his mother or daughter.

I wish people who are far away from the actual situation and especially outside of ROCOR have some consideration for the truth that is being printed.

TomS · Post by **TomS** » Thu 2 June 2005 1:09 pm

joasia wrote:
...They threw her out and she came back and took Vladika. The bishops asked him to stay, but he said he wanted to go with her. Since she has been with him all these years and the sole controller of his medication, do you think he was really able to see thinks clearly. Afterall, he let her stay in his quarters(not in the same room, of course) and that is forbidden isn't it, unless the woman is his mother or daughter.

I wish people would leave the poor old man alone. It sounds like he WANTS her around -- maybe he has found some companionship after all those lonely years serving others.

joasia · Post by **joasia** » Thu 2 June 2005 1:49 pm

Tom,

You obviously don't understand how dear Vladika is to us...especially the people, like my girlfriend who has known him for 20 years and he's visited her home on many occasions and brought the Kurst Root Icon to her home. She had also walked down the street with him one time in the neighborhood of Podvore and he had bought her chocolates from the Greek pastery shop. And he was dressed like a simple monk. Many secular Greeks didn't know he was a Metropolitan. She was astonished by his humility. He didn't demand special service or attention.

So you see, many people know about the negative effect this woman has brought into his life and their hearts squeeze with pain, as my girlfriend expressed to me, this weekend. We don't know why he let her take over, but men can make mistakes and Vl. made a big one by letting her in his life.

But, of course, you cannot understand this and all you have to offer is sarcasm.

TomS · Post by **TomS** » Thu 2 June 2005 2:10 pm

joasia wrote:
We don't know why he let her take over....

See my previous post.

joasia wrote:
But, of course, you cannot understand this and all you have to offer is sarcasm.

I understand perfectly and was not being sarcastic.

Maybe he is TIRED of people fighting over him. Maybe he is tired of being used as a tool by others to push their agenda, their ideas of right and wrong. Maybe he just wants to be left alone in the few years he has left in this life.

But no, it is all about what YOU ALL WANT!

Antoniohassen · Post by **Antoniohassen** » Thu 2 June 2005 10:08 pm

TomS wrote: But no, it is all about what YOU ALL WANT!

TomS wrote again: Conspiracy theorists unite!

Yes TomS, you are right, and from your answer, you are one of the theorists! :bump:

Truly, you don’t know what Russian and Rocor people think about Vladyka Vitaly’s situation.
Are you aware why the “rocie” is without faithful, except in Montreal where Vladyka is?

joasia · Post by **joasia** » Thu 2 June 2005 10:55 pm

CHRIST IS RISEN!

Maybe he is TIRED of people fighting over him. Maybe he is tired of being used as a tool by others to push their agenda, their ideas of right and wrong. Maybe he just wants to be left alone in the few years he has left in this life.

Maybe, maybe, maybe...

It's all just maybe's isn't it? These are all your OPINIONS, right? But, in Orthodoxy we don't look at maybe's, we look for the truth. There are too many circumstances to consider. We can't just throw out maybe's into the air.

But no, it is all about what YOU ALL WANT!

Where is this judgemental attitude coming from? What happened to the guy that was falling off the ladder?

All you do is critisize. Do you have the humility to at least admit that you do not understand how it is to walk in our shoes?

We are all very concerned for Vladika. A family has been broken up. I assume you don't know that my church was burnt down by arsenists, right? The firemen found those little gasoline canisters in the altar. That's right. The source of the fire started in the altar! They didn't even bother to take the canisters. They wanted us to know that it was done on purpose. Can you possibly imagine what it meant to me when I saw the smoldering church, the next morning? Are you going to sit there and say that you KNOW how I felt?

It sounds like he WANTS her around -- maybe he has found some companionship after all those lonely years serving others.

You know, I could use your method of sarcasm here, but I won't. All I can say is that there is more going on than YOU can see.

All you do is throw around your sarcasm and judgemental comments. You don't even know how it feels to be in ROCOR. You don't know what we have gone through...the struggle of re-building the church, the constant debt of re-finishing the church. All the sacrafices many of us have made. All the sweat and tears. We helped clean the bricks to be reused. We watched the walls be built up again. We held a service for the first time in the church(before the schism). You don't even know what it means to be serving dinners in an area that used to be the hall, but now is a gutted out space with cement and bricks. But, we still prepare meals, pray, eat and yes, even laugh. Then I have to do the dishes. But, we still give our time to make pirouski. My saturday duty will be coming up soon. We are struggling. Can you feel my struggle? Can you feel my heart?

Do you have anything else sarcastic to add? I guess I'm opening myself up to it, so go ahead and give it your best shot.