Moderator: Mark Templet
Ekaterina,
All of our repentence! It is your own sins, and my sins which have contributed to this so if you desire the salavation of others, first we must save ourselves.
This is as much a declaration (by Esphigmenou and not the Holy Synod) on the status of ROCOR as it is on Met. Vitaly, who is wholly different than the FROC (ROAC). It is amazing how many "canonical irregularities" the Church is willing to forgive when it is for the Glory of God, and how few when it isn't.
Apologitis wrote:Is ROCOR in communion with... Esphigmenou? :shock:
The ROCOR that OOD refers is ROCOR-Vitaly. But it is not that GOC (Kyousite Synod) of Greece is in communion with ROCOR-V but only it was a recognition of the Ephigmenou to Met Vitaly like the True Hierarch of ROCOR.
On the other hand I don't understand your astonishment. It is natural (AND necessary) that all Traditional Church, those that teach the True Orthodoxy put on in communion. This would be something good and it was achieved by Metropolitan St Philaret of New York. The union of the Traditional Churches would be a great step against the lie of the false orthodoxy.
CHRIST IS RISEN!
You know, not everything is cut and dry. For example, there is never mention of the woman who is controlling Vladika Vitaly's every move. Perhaps, those of you outside of ROCOR might have heard of her. Those who are with ROCOR know who I am talking about. And then there is the issue of the people who are constantly buzzing around Vladika. I have one family name, in mind, but I won't mention it. All these people have gone out of their way to create this schism. And many of them are immigrants from the Soviet Union. They are not doing it for the sake of preserving the Orthodox faith. They are doing it out of their own personal gains or somekind of agenda. So would their seperation be blessed by God, since they are the instigators? And I know that their infiltration into the situation is no accident.
I went to visit Vladika a few years back with a couple of friends. We went to Mansonville. Vladika was in a very confused state. He didn't even recognize my friends who he knew most of their lives. There must have been at least 10 bottles of pills on the table. It was a very sad reunion.
It's like they had him hostage. He couldn't do anything on his own. What would you say to a situation where a person was not allowed to move freely, but had to wait for approval of this certain DISPICABLE woman. Sounds like something out of the communist era; everybody has a controller. I've heard things about her past too. Has any hierach had to answer to a woman and wait for her approval? Is any man who is free, have to get permission from a woman in order to go somewhere(married men, not included, of course)? Or does he set the rules? From what I've heard of Vladika's character before I came to ROCOR, he had his own mind and did what he chose...until this woman showed up in his life, which was about 12 years ago or so. She even ruled over the Synod home base ! And now she is ruler of her own created Synod. I say created, because all she needed was a Vladika, in order to establish a synod. Everybody there goes to HER for approval! What does that tell you? And also, the ordination of the bishops there, were done uncanonically.
I agree that the actions of ROCOR-L are too friendly with the MP. But, at the same time, we have to consider that the schism may not be due to true Orthodox preservation. Just because it is Vladika Vitaly, doesn't mean that what was done was right.
There's one thing I can say as a new-comer to ROCOR (12 years), is that some people in ROCOR have setup Vladika Vitaly almost like an infallible being. And you know what? He isn't. He made mistakes and he had his quirks. I've heard of many, but the one that really disturbs me is that he was greatly opposed to St. John Maximovich...greatly. And this is a public fact; I'm not making this up. And the second thing is that he allowed this woman to live in his residence, in New York and confided only in her. Nobody could get passed her, not even the bishops. Also, a spiritual father who choses to go into exile, for whatever situation, would contact his spiritual children. I know, for a fact, that there were many who he didn't even bother to contact? Why? He abandoned his flock. Or was he taken away by force? For a man who was quite direct with his actions, in his earlier days, he certainly wasn't acting of his own will, but was manipulated by that woman. No doubt all the drugs he was taking, by a doctor's advise, was the cause of his confusion. This doctor was commissioned by this woman too, by the way.
I know some people may be offended by my brash comments, but I will not be blinded by the issues just because the person involved is Vladika Vitaly. What I'm basically saying is that, just because it is Vladika Vitaly who is involved, it is still possible that this schism is more in the line of a creation of a sect(by that woman) instead of a true preservation of Orthodoxy that is blessed by God. I refuse to be tricked into believing falsehood. That goes for ROCOR-L too. I am watching and observing all. I have also confronted some clergy about these issues. I was fooled by the papists, but I will not allow myself to be fooled by the Orthodox clergy too.
True Orthodoxy must be preserved in truth. Not by personal issues or manipulated circumstances. It must be preserved freely and with truth.
Create in me a clean heart, O God, and renew a right spirit within me. (Ps. 50)
What about the Poor nuns kicked out and left all alone by Rocor, and from my understanding Vladyka Metropolitan Vitaly is only being guarded not being persuaded..there are people ,bad people that are wolves dressed in sheeps clothing trying to make a 180 degree turn on this issue,SCHISM Im not one to accuse,But Vitaly has been basically left with a handful of Churches and faithful flock including some very God Fearing nuns that could use all of your prayers................
Yes, dear Joasia,
I was aware too about this woman for the Fr. Benjamin’s statements.
And more too, the laymen and priests denounced as kidnapers of Vladyka Metropolitan Vitaly has been the friendly “rescue command” of his beloved Vladyka, that he perceived as a prisoner in Mansonville.
Sadly, the manipulated Vladyka Vitaly don’t acknowledged his old time friends, as you say!
Antoniohassen
Ok, I have heard speak before about his kidnappers and that woman, but do excuse me for my ignorance, if everything is certain. Why then they don't begin legal actions to liberate Vladyka Vitaly of the hands of his kidnappers? I think that if those that you say are true, this is something illegal and criminal, and this in no way should be to be allowed and the civil Justice should not allow this abuse to a person that doesn't make sick psychically, although many of the ecclesiological positions of V. Vitaly is a lot more coherent now that he is in ROCOR-V that when he was in ROCOR (incoherent posture that continuous having ROCOR-L). On the other hand if this is certain, I believe ROCOR-L has enough power to work legally and this way "to liberate" to Vladyka of his "kidnappers"