Jewish hatred of christianity

[Ebor]

Thank you, Melk. You wrote well what I was (poorly) trying to conveigh, that if people are mistreated and threatened and killed for centuries by others who use a certain symbol, i.e. the Cross, they are not going to easily see that symbol without the pain and horror associated with it.

Thank you very much for adding your voice here.

Ebor

[Nikodemus]

Melk

Thank you for your clarifications and explanation. But according to Israel Shahak and other sources, the practice to spit on crosses is from the second century and not because of supposed christian persecution of jews during the middle ages. And, for that matter, jews played a great deal in persecution against christians to, when the Roman Empire were pagan. I dont believe that spitting on the cross only has to do with what christian wrong-doing to jews, but also because hatred of the christian religion. For example the ex rabbi Paul Photiou of the jewish synagoge in Arta explained the hatred in the Talmud against Christ.

Hatred toward any human is aleays wrong. What I tried to do was explaining the hatred in a "ism" towards christian symbols.

Before Saul became Paul he was a cross-hating pharisee. Later he bocome a martyr for the cross sake. It is not about humans, it is about hatred in a "ism".

It is also clear that the orthodox jews today heavely oppose the state of Israel and zionism, as a blasphemy of the Talmud.

Therefore it is not about any conspiracy, or something of this sort. It is just facts...there is in fact a hatred toward christian symbolism in judaism, orthodox jews does indeed spit in the face of orthodox christian clergy in Israel, Jacob Schiff did in fact sponsor the revolution in Russia and most of the communist were in fact jews. This is facts.

It is also fact that many jews opposed communism and that many jews opposes zionism. There is no conspirasy and the Schiff factor must also be seen as an attempt to stop the pogroms against the jews.

My point is: You dont have to chose between difficult and controversial data and love...you must live the truth in love - Veritatem facientes in caritate.

[Nikodemus]

I quote again the ex Rabbi Paul Photiu. Perhaps no one remembers the great event in Arta 1952 when the jewish rabbi of the synagoge converted with his family to the Orthodox Church. Later he wrote a pamphlet with the title " My conversion to Christ". His name after baptism was Paul Photiou and his short essay is an remarkable confession of orthodox faith. This rabbi points out exactly what happens if you in prayer open your heart to God and let Him and not prejudice guide you when you read the professies of the Old Testament. Paul writes:

"...upon one day during the year 1952 I resolved to become as a child in mind, not accepting the false teaching of our fathers, and received Jesus as the Messiah and Redeemer of mankind as a whole and of myself, as I finally discerned Him in Holy Scripture, that is, as descending from the family of David and the root of Jesse. And this did I perceive immidately after I decided to repudiate the blasohemous teachings of our fathers, by means of which they blasphemed the mother of God as a common woman - God forbid! - as also our Saviour Christ as an illegitimate one and one that perverts the Mosaic Law and the people of Israel of His times. After, I say, that I repuditated this Rabbinical law, which was constructed by the scribes and pharisees, as otherAnnases and Caiaphases, and all their calumnies against Him as being false and contrary to Holy Scripture, then did I see the light and discerned Jesus in the Old testament."

Paul Photiou, My Conversion to Christ p. 5-6. The Orhtodox Christian Educational Society 1956, Henderson Street Chicago, Illinois USA

This shows that it is not just what christians have DONE to jews that explains judaism hatred of christian symbolism, it is in fact IN THE TEACHING OF THE POST CHRISTIAN JEWISH RELIGION

[melk]

Nikodem,

I am sorry that you don't want to see the truth. For the first 24 years of my life I was an Orthodox(religious) Jew. I spent half my time in Israel and half hear in the US. I still have close family and friends in communities in Israel, and even in government there. In all of my time, I have never heard of spitting on a cross, it does not exist in any form of Orthodox Judaism that I have ever found.

To say that the Talmud has a hatred toward Jesus or Christianity is to continue to spew forth anti-semetic, white supremacist lies. I have studied the Talmud, in order to be ordained a Rabbi I had to be conversant in all of it and expert in much of it, and I have never found once where Jesus or Christianity were addressed.

As far as early Jewish persecution of Christians(especially Jewish ones) that was a part of Judaism of that era. Sadducees killed Pharisees, Pharisees killed Sadducees and other sects of Pharisees. There is nothing new there, the Talmud even records this as one of the reasons the Temple was destroyed. From a true historical perspective however, it was mostly Sadducean persecution that the early Church faced, most especially post 70AD. In fact in a Midrash(a form of Rabbinic Text) written somewhere between 185-250 called Otza HaMidrashim claims that Peter, Paul, John and James remained members of the Sanhedrin after they became Christians, that Peter wrote a major part of our Sabbath prayers, and that Paul wrote the Yom Kippur(day of atonement) prayers. So if the Rabbis were claiming that these pillars of Christianity were there own, and still valid despite their views on Jesus then I don't see how you can say that there was this rabbid hatred.

Despising Christianity and disparaging remarks within Judaism can only be traced back as far as the 1200's with one of Rashi's famous commentaries(note also that he was a German Jew in the middle of the Crusades, and had his wife and children killed in the name of Jesus). From that point on with the inquisition and so forth you have various other people stating negative things, most especially around the Spanish Inquisition.

As far as communist Russia being a Jewish enterprise, please!!! None, not one of the Jewish Bolsheveiks survived Stalins first purge. Were they ideally communist, yes, even Israel is a Socialist state. But first you cannot reasonably claim that Bolsheveik Russia was a Christian hating state, Russian Orthodoxy was the state religion, granted it had to be their version. There was no other religion, including Judaism that was allowed to survive that. One of my father's uncles was killed in Communist Russia for teaching Jews to pray!!

As far as most Orthodox Jews being against the state of Israel, you need to check your facts. There only remain two sects of Hasidic Jews who still stand against the state of Israel. That being said most do stand against secular zionism, and none see Israel as it is today as a fulfillment of any kind of prophecy, it is simply the first secular state where Jews have been safe and free. Where they don't have to be put down by another religion whether Islam or Christianity. If you can name me just one Christian Holy site anywhere in Israel that has been turned into a synagogue then I might listen. [/u]

[MBZ]

Hi all!

I'm the orthodox Jew that Ebor is referring to. I would like to make a few general remarks first & then a few specific ones. I thank everyone for their patience.

We do not hate Christians, whether Orthodox or not. There is always a difference between what a faith teaches (i.e. what its normative doctrines are) and what individual given believers may actually do/believe/say. I imagine that Orthodox Christianity & Orthodox Judaism are very similar in this regard. Our Sages say, "Receive all men with a cheerful countenance," and teach that, "The righteous of all nations have a share in the world-to-come." Any Jew who espouses hatred of (say) Orthodox Christianity and of Orthodox Christians simply because they are such is letting his/her personal hatreds/prejudices get the better of his/her Judaism.

Following is an article about the various Christian communities here in Israel: http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Facts+About+I ... of+Isr.htm.

About spitting.

Spitting on the cross, an especially on the Crucifix, and spitting when a Jew passes a church, have been obligatory from around AD 200 for pious Jews.

This one is very easy to deal with. It's poppycock (I was tempted to use a somewhat cruder term having to do with male bovine excrement), i.e. it's a lie, i.e. whoever wrote/claims such a thing is either badly misinformed or is consciously trying to sow discord & spread ill will.

Now, back on Jan. 24 of this year, our (Israel's) Ashkenazi Chief Rabbi Yonah Metzger met with His Beatitude Archbishop Torkom Manoogian, the (96th) Armenian Patriarch of Jerusalem, after a religious Jewish youth did spit on a senior Armenian churchman last year:

Israeli chief rabbi’s visit to Patriarchate seen as bid to improve relations

by Michele Green, Ecumenical News International

JERUSALEM — Israel’s Ashkenazi chief rabbi has paid an unprecedented official visit to the headquarters of the Armenian Patriarch in Jerusalem in what is seen as a drive by Israeli officials to improve Jewish‑Christian relations in the Holy Land.

Rabbi Yona Metzger, one of two chief rabbis, made the visit as part of a series of meetings with Christian leaders to mend relations after a Jewish seminary student attacked an Armenian archbishop last year.

“The rabbi condemned attacks against religious clerics and called for mutual respect between all faiths to be upheld in Israel and across the world,” Metzger's office said.

The visit on Jan. 24 by Chief Rabbi Metzger, the head of the Ashkenazi or non‑Mediterranean European Jewish community in Israel, was seen as part of an effort to educate Israeli officials about Christianity and the diverse Christian communities who live in the Holy Land. It was the first time an Israeli chief rabbi had visited the Armenian Patriarchate.

A Jewish seminary student last year pushed and spat on an Armenian archbishop as he led a religious procession to the Church of the Holy Sepulchre, a site in Jerusalem commemorating Jesus’ crucifixion and burial.

The student, who later apologized to the cleric, said he attacked the archbishop because he was offended by his holding of a crucifix, which for some Jews has come to symbolize centuries of Christian persecution.

The incident raised an outcry in Israel and officials and religious leaders warned of the need to instill greater tolerance and understanding in the country’s youth.

Christian clerics said they were frequently accosted by Jewish seminary students in the Old City.

Israeli parliamentarians and Jewish officials have attended seminars teaching them rudimentary knowledge of Christianity and the various denominations in the Holy Land before a series of meetings with the Latin and Armenian patriarchs, as well as representatives from the Greek Orthodox community.

“It is incumbent upon us not just to look at the Christian world with preconceived notions based on past relations,” said parliamentarian Yuri Stern.

Many Israeli officials have been largely uninformed about the religious and cultural differences between the Christian communities living in the Holy Land.

But last year’s attack against the Armenian archbishop highlighted the need to promote better understanding and relations betweenIsraeli Jews and their Christian neighbors.

Link: http://www.pcusa.org/pcnews/2005/05054.htm (see also http://www.israelnationalnews.com/news.php3?id=75792)

Are there Jews who have spat upon Christian clergymen, churches, etc? Unfortunately, yes; as an orthodox Jew, such acts shame me. But such uncouth, boorish & ill-mannered behavior is contrary to the norms of our faith & shouldn't/doesn't/can't reflect on our faith. Rather, it is another example of what I said above about there being a divergence between what our respective faiths teache (i.e. what its normative doctrines are) and what individual given believers may actually do/believe/say.

The spitting on the cross for converts from Christianity to Judaism , organized in Kibbutz Sa'ad and financed by the Israeli government is a an act of traditional Jewish piety.

This is ludicrous, preposterous and a lie. I've been to Saad (http://www.saad.org.il/caterin1.html). Saad is one of Israel's religious kibbutzim (the plural of kibbutz). It & a few other religious kibbutzim have conversion programs. There are 2 converts in my family & several others in our (religious) neighborhood (http://jr.co.il/ma/pic/ma012.htm) in the Jerusalem suburb of Maaleh Adumim (http://jr.co.il/ma/). Spitting on a cross is NOT part of the conversion ceremony!

About Jacob Schiff & the Russo-Japanese War. Repelled by the 1903 Kishinev pogrom (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kishinev_pogrom) in particular & the Czarist government's policies vis-a-vis Russian Jews in general, Schiff was only to happy to raise funds for the Japanese. (American Jews also attempted to raise enough funds to buy a battleship for the Japanese navy.) The Wikipedia entry on him (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacob_Schiff) says:

During the Russo-Japanese War, in 1904 and 1905, in perhaps his most famous financial action, Schiff, again through Kuhn, Loeb & Co., extended a critical series of loans to Japan, in the amount of $200 million. He was willing to extend this loan due, in part, to his belief that gold is not as important as national effort and desire, in helping win a war, and due to the apparent underdog status of Japan at the time; no European nation had ever been defeated by a non-European nation before then. It is quite likely Schiff also saw this loan as a means of taking revenge, on behalf of the Jewish people, for the anti-Semitic actions of the Tsarist regime, specifically the then-recent pogroms in Kishinev.

(cont.)

[MBZ]

(cont.)

About the Jews & the Bolshevik revolution.

I present the following:

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of ... Bolshevism:

Many members of the Bolshevik party were Jewish, especially in the leadership of the party. The idea of overthrowing the Tsarist regime was attractive to many members of the Jewish intelligentsia because of the oppression of non-Russian nations within the Russian Empire. For much the same reason, many other non-Russians, notably Latvians or Poles, were disproportionately represented in the party leadership. This was abused by the Tsarist secret police, the Okhranka, which used anti-Semitism and xenophobia as a weapon against the party.

The Jewish origins of some of leading Bolsheviks and their support for a policy of promoting international proletarian revolution - most notably in the case of Trotsky -led many enemies of Bolshevism to draw a picture of Communism as a political idea pursued to benefit Jewish interests. In Germany, the Nazi regime of Adolf Hitler used this theory to paint a picture of a supposed "Jewish-Bolshevik conspiracy". Even today, many anti-Semites continue to promote the idea of a link between Judaism and Communism. However, the concept that an entire ethnic group can be held responsible for the actions of a few is very widely rejected. The Bolsheviks seem to have been personally rather atheistic and internationalistic, more concerned with the plight of the working class in general rather than with any ethnicity or religious group. (See concepts of proletarian internationalism, bourgeois nationalism).

Most of the Jewish "Old Bolsheviks", along with their Gentile counterparts, were purged by Stalin during the 1930s. However, Stalin's ambitions to undertake a more general purge of "rootless cosmopolitans" (a euphemism for Jews), expressed in the preparation of the trial of the Doctors' plot, were never realised due to his death in 1953.

While there were a significant number of Jews in the Bolshevik Party the percentage of Jewish party members among the rival Mensheviks was much higher. The vast majority of Russia's Jews weren't in any political party.

From http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jso ... sia.html#l:

As the borders of Soviet Russia sharpened, large numbers of Jews who had previously been under Russian control found themselves outside of the Soviet Empire. Only about 2,500,000 Jews remained under Soviet control. The Bolsheviks rejected anti-Semitism and loosened civil restrictions on the Jews. Under the influence of influential assimilated Jews, the Bolsheviks began to see the assimilation of the Jews as the only solution to “the Jewish problem.” Jewish nationalist expressions, be they expressions of the Jewish religion or Zionism, were clamped down upon. While the Bolshevik leaders clamped down on Jewish separatism their fight against anti-Semitism gained them wide support among the Jewish masses. Jewish youth enthusiastically joined the Red Army (founded by a Jew, Leon Trotsky). In 1926, Jews made up 4.4% of the officers in the Red Army (more than twice their ratio in the general population). Jewish elites also took part in the administrative rebuilding of the country. While a small but influential group of Jews helped rebuild Russia, the Socialist Economic Policies weakened the masses. The Bolsheviks also set up a special “Jewish section” in government in response to the fact that millions of Jews were attached to the Jewish religion and Hebrew language (at least as a language of prayer and Judaism). The Communists put secular assimilationist Jews in charge in order to foster hatred towards the Jewish religion, Hebrew, and Zionism, though temporarily allowing its replacement with secular Yiddish culture. In August 1919, Jewish communities were dissolved and properties confiscated. Traditional institutions of Jewish education and culture, such as yeshivot and cheder, were shut down. Hebrew study was prohibited and it became forbidden to print Jewish books. In 1928, it was forbidden to even print religious books and Jewish calendars. In 1927, Rabbi J. Schneerson, the leader of Habad Hasidism, was imprisoned and expelled from Russia. Yet “underground” religious activity still continued, though after World War II, hundreds of Hasidism left Russia to Eretz Yisrael. The growing restrictions on Jewish religious life strengthened Zionism.

Yiddish was also strengthened by the forming of a “Jewish proletariat culture.” A Yiddish press and Yiddish newspapers were established, though the writing of Yiddish was phoneticized into Russian script so as to cut its ties with Hebrew print. Russians granted Yiddish official status in that tribunals were held in Yiddish and significant resources were invested in the development of Yiddish school systems. After awhile, however, Jewish parents rebelled against these schools whose only connections to Jewish culture was a few lines of Yiddish literature and which taught anti-religious sentiment. As the quality of the schools declined (weak to begin with), they began to disappear.

The disappearance of Yiddish was replaced by cultural assimilation. Jewish children spoke Russian and attended Russian schools. Mixed marriage became common. Jews began to play an important role in Russian cultural life.

During World War II, much of the attempts to persecute the Jews were halted. When World War II began, Jews played an important part of the Soviet military effort. Their role in the front lines was disproportionately higher then other national groups. While much of Soviet Jewry was decimated in the Holocaust, those living in Russia proper were mostly spared. After World War II was concluded, however, the attempts to suppress Soviet Jewry were resumed. Until Stalin’s death in 1953, Soviet Jews were placed in the gulag and were faced with significant physical oppression. In 1952, Stalin had a number of leading Russian Jewish intellectuals murdered in the “Night of the Murdered Poets.”

Even after Stalin’s death, the attempt to suppress Judaism and Jewish culture continued. Jewish books and religious articles had to be smuggled into the country and attempts to study the books and utilize the religious articles had to be clandestine. The covert nature restricted access to Jewish life to only a few individuals. The few Jews who continued participation in Jewish life were called refusniks, and were severely punished by the Soviet authorities. By 1965, only about 60 synagogues remained in all of Russia. It was not until Mikhail Gorbachev came to power and his policy of glasnost that restrictions on Soviet Jewry lessened.

I cite http://www.fjc.ru/news/newsArticle.asp?AID=114407:

Inter-Religious Peace Conference concludes in Moscow

Wednesday, March 3 2004

MOSCOW, Russia - The Second Inter-Religious Peace Conference concluded tonight in Moscow. The conference was attended by representatives of those faiths traditionally represented in Russia and the CIS. Over 30 Chief Rabbis of cities and countries of the CIS attended, along with senior representatives of Russia's other key faiths - Russian Orthodox Christian, Islam, Buddhism, Georgian and Armenian Orthodox Christian.

A other religious leaders also addressed the conference including: the Patriarch of Moscow and Russia, Alexiy II; the Chairman of the Muftis' Council, Ravil Gainutdin; the Head of the Buddhist Sangha in Russia, Pandito Hambo Lama Damba Ayushev; the Head of Administration of Caucasus Muslims, Sheikh Ul Islam Allahshukur Pahsa-zade; the Patriarchy of Georgia, Ilya II; Metropolitan Kirill of Smolensk and Kaliningrad; the Patriarch of Armenia, Garegin II; and Rabbi Arthur Schneier, who is President of New York's 'Appeal of Conscience' Foundation.

Georgiy Poltavchenko, the President's representative in the Central Federal District, opened the event by relaying a message from Russia's President Vladimir Putin. "Today, when society encounters revelations of extremism and faces attempts to abuse religion for unjust goals, the word of religious figures in defending peace is extremely important," expressed President Putin. Participants also heard greetings from Armenia's President Robert Kocheryan, Georgia's President Mikhail Saakashvili, Uzbekistan's President Islam Karimov, and President of Azerbaijan Ilham Aliyev.

Both religious leaders and state officials, including Acting Minister of Foreign Affairs Igor Ivanov, stressed that constructive dialogue between religions is not only extremely important, but is an inalienable part of cooperation between civilizations and cultures.

Chief Rabbi Lazar said that cooperation between representatives from different religions towards achieving a common positive goal is of fundamental importance. "We need something more than tolerance - we need each other," said Rabbi Lazar. "Together we can change relations between people, just as relations between nations and religions, to be able to raise children in the spirit of common values." He stressed the need to embrace the seven Noachide laws that provide the basis for a moral and stable society, as well as the need to reach out to influence all members of society, even those who do not practice a religious faith.

In his address, Chief Rabbi of Ukraine Azriel Chaikin noted the positive advances in religion in the CIS, following 70 years of communism. He also spoke about the campaign of the Lubavitcher Rebbe, Rabbi Menachem Mendel Schneerson of righteous memory, which aimed to promote a moment of silence at the outset of a school day, even in public schools, so that all pupils can reflect on the creator exclusive of their religious identity. Rabbi Chaikin explained how, if taught correctly, this method could enhance the development of the larger society, particularly when the different religions are at peace.

Throughout the conference, religious leaders spoke out against any form of violence and terrorism performed in the name of religion. The dialogue proved to be a very positive signal for the future development of constructive relations between the traditional religions of the CIS.

We remember atheistic communism as a blight on humanity that should properly be assigned to the dustbin of history. I posted the foregoing because I sincerely believe that believing orthodox Jews & believing orthodox Christians can & should work together. If the Chief Rabbi of Russia & the Russian Orthodox Patriarch can see each other as colleagues & friends, shouldn't we learn from our respective spiritual leaders and follow their example?

Regarding Israel Shahak, see this 1966 article by the then Chief Rabbi of the British Commonwealth Lord Immanual Jakobovitz (of blessed memory): http://tinyurl.com/des2.

Melk, your historical analyses are accurate and well-written. You posted:

...many Orthodox(aka religious) Jews, especially those from Traditionally Greek or Middle Eastern families will tell you that Jews got along fine with Christians in Israel until the Catholics came in the Crusades...Go to the walk of the "Righteous of the Nations" in Israel and count the number of Orthodox Bishops and Metropolitans that worked so hard during WWII to save Jews, most especially in Bulgaria where the Church there managed to save all of their Jews from the Nazi death camps.

Correct. We remember the Serbian Orthodox Church's very noble efforts to protect & help Jews during World war II (in strong contrast to the Catholic Croatian Ustashi & the Catholic Tizo regime in Slovakia).

Please understand that for a Jew, especially one from Western Europe, the Cross is a very offensive symbol. It has been the symbol of persecution and death.

Also correct. Thus it is not surprising that some in the orthodox community, particularly in the ultra-orthodox community, are still stand-offish (at best) and hostile (at worst) to efforts at interfaith dialogue in particular & Christianity in general.

One other thing that we have in common is bitter memories of the Crusades. We remember the Rhine Valley & Jerusalem massacres; you remember the treachery of 1204.

To say that the Talmud has a hatred toward Jesus or Christianity is to continue to spew forth anti-semetic, white supremacist lies.

Correct yet again! See http://talmud.faithweb.com/ & http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Cyprus/8815/.

As far as most Orthodox Jews being against the state of Israel, you need to check your facts. There only remain two sects of Hasidic Jews who still stand against the state of Israel.

Correct. See http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jso ... onism.html & http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jso ... sm/nk.html. Neturei Karta is a t-i-n-y group whose extremist views place it outside the mainstream of ultra-orthodoxy, to say nothing of modern orthodoxy. Indeed, the extremism & viciousness of their rhetoric and their ability to generate publicity for themselves are in inverse proportion to their size, influence and relative importance within the ultra-orthodox community. The vast majority of modern orthodox Jews (like myself) do support the State of Israel. Modern orthodoxy is very pro-Zionist & very supportive of the State of Israel & has always been so. It is our ultra-orthodox ([haredi in Hebrew) brethren who span the spectrum of pro-Zionist, to non-Zionist, to downright anti-Zionist (even militantly so). But the ultra-orthodox world, particularly here in Israel, has , in recent years seen a shift from anti-Zionism more towards non-Zionism (although there certainly are plenty of militantly anti-Israel ultra-orthodox Jews). This has been partly due to events such as http://tinyurl.com/65txd which hit the ultra-orthodox community here very hard. NK was a marginal group to begin with & they have become even more marginalized in recent years, all their pathological shrieking that they embody the essence of normative orthodoxy notwithstanding. They are legends in their own minds (but in nobody else's). Opponents of Israel have seized on them and fawn all over them because NK's views neatly dovetail with their own.

You might find this http://www.vbm-torah.org/yyerush/atz59.htm, entitled "The Religious Significance of the State of Israel" by Rabbi Yehuda Amital interesting.

Lastly...

Orthodox Christianity & orthodox Judaism (despite our rather obvious differences) have much in common, I think. Our views on many ethical & moral issues are similar. But beyond that, ours are faiths with rules, with authority & structure & with discipline. Ours are not make-it-up-as-you-go-along faiths & never have been (I suppose Protestantism & Reform Judaism are like that). Rather than mold the faith to fit the individual, I think that we believe that it is the individual who must mold him/herself to fit the faith. The late Rabbi Jakobovitz once said that a faith which demands nothing is worth nothing. To be an orthodox Jew demands a great deal & the little I know about Orthodox Christianity (I minored in religion way back as an undergrad) tells me that to be an Orthodox Christian is similarly very demanding.

I have one teensy-weensy request. One of my very few cyberrules is that I will not discuss the Israeli-Arab conflict on line, in any form. Such discussions all too often turn into undignified, emotional flame wars that have very little to do with honest, mutually didactic and friendly (I hope) interfaith dialogue.

Be well!

MBZ

[Nikodemus]

Melk

You surely contradict yourself. In your first post you write that spitting on crosses exists and happens because of what christians have done to jews, later you say that spitting on crosses is non-existent in judaism. You say that the real hatred of judaism on christianity appeared in the 1200 century (do you refer to the hate of Moses Maimonides here?), while the New Testament itself speaks about Sauls persecution and hate toward the christian community!!!

Or have I misunderstood you?

If you read the very interesting articles of MBZ below you find that he says that orthodox jews in fact sometimes DO SPIT IN THE FACE OF THE ORTHODOX CHRISTIAN CLERGY.

Stalin was an evil anti-semite, I know this and have no sympathy for him, but please!!! I have many proofs (That I surely will post soon) that the jewish communists ruled over the first death-camps in Europe, in Finland.

I come back with further information later on this topic.

So you say that the words of ex rabbi Paul Photiou about Talmuds sayings of Christ is wrong. Well, I trust this rabbi much and have his book here next to me. This rabbis word against yours then.