Did Christ Laugh since laughter is a worldly passion?

Patristic theology, and traditional teachings of Orthodoxy from the Church fathers of apostolic times to the present. All forum Rules apply. No polemics. No heated discussions. No name-calling.
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Reader Benjamin
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Post by Reader Benjamin »

Jesus laughed or He did not. Who was there and has told us? We are speculating. What is important? The Fathers tell us to watch out for our souls. What does this mean? How do we apply this? There are many cannons, writings, and traditions of the Church. What are they for? They are not for us to argue or quarrel about, they are for us to use to help us become as much like God as we can. And there are differing rules for Monastics and the laity. We have to apply what we read in the lives of the Saints, the writings of the Fathers, the Holy Scripture, the Cannons of the Church, and Holy tradition as we can. Not to boast not to tell everyone they are wrong not to compare yourself to any one else.

It is not a matter of what you eat and drink, or when. It is a matter of whether you are being conformed to the image of Christ or not. What is this image? LOVE for all especially our enemies. Look at the humility of Christ, He is God, and yet because of His LOVE for us, He clothed Himself with our flesh. And this was not a “poof” here I am, He was carried in the womb of the most Holy Virgin Mary for 9 months, like we are carried in the womb for 9 months. He then did not say “Ok here I am, “poof” I am an adult now”, no He lived a childhood, He learned a trade, He helped His foster father, He supported His mother and was obedient to them. Then after He became 30 years old, then He started His ministry, though I suppose it can be argued that His ministry started in eternity. This is God we are talking about, the Creator of all that we see and do not see. The Creator becoming a creature!? This is the LOVE of God. Then when His own people rejected Him and had Him crucified He died, for us. He went to Hades, for us. He destroyed hades, for us. Then, as we had just celebrated, He rose from the dead for us. Then he ascended to the Heavens, with His body that we gave Him through the most Holy Theotokos. What has all this done? We miserable creatures that are continually disobedient to God have the opportunity to become ONE with God. And what do we do? We spend our time arguing about what is not important, if it was the Apostles would have told us.

Now because of God’s LOVE for us and the fact that He created us in His image, we are free to do what ever we want, anything, completely free. There are consequences, but we are free. We can choose to labour to be like God, to work at restoring His image in us. And you are right we can not do that, God does it, but not against our will. As we work out what is in our hearts, He does what we can not.

Let us work together to becaome like Christ rather than argue about what is not important.

OrthodoxyOrDeath

Post by OrthodoxyOrDeath »

I for one think this is a rather important topic, although I am disappointed people are having a hard time discussing it in a charitable manner.

This subject of Christ (who is the model) laughing seems to brush on the demeanor of what Orthodoxy teaches.

Now Milla and Tom wrote about Children, and St. Theophan the Recluse writes that children have no control of their passions because their minds have not yet developed and taken control of their bodies. I will also say, that experiencing joy with your children is also something else entirley.

But for adults struggling for holiness...

Eccl. 7:3 "Sorrow is better than laughter: for by the sadness of the countenance the heart is made better."

Eccl. 2:1 "I said in mine heart, Go to now, I will prove thee with mirth, therefore enjoy pleasure: and, behold, this also is vanity."

Eccl. 2:2 "I said of laughter, It is mad: and of mirth, What doeth it?"

Eccl. 7:4 "The heart of the wise is in the house of mourning; but the
heart of fools is in the house of mirth. :6 For as the crackling of thorns under a pot, so is the laughter of the fool: this also is vanity."

Eccl. 21:20 A fool lifteth up his voice with laughter; but a wise man doth scarce smile a little.

Please also note that the laughter, lightness of spirit, is the opposite of soberness. The Greek word for sober is 'sofroneo' which means to be of sound mind; to be in one's right mind and to exercise self control. It is by seriousness, gravity, or solemnity of conduct or character and self-restraint.

Holy Scripture and the Holy Fathers give many examples or commands to be sober. Acts 26:25; Romans 12:3; I Corth. 15:34; I Thess. 5:6; I Thess. 5:8; I Tim. 3:2; I Tim. 3:11; II Tim. 4:5; Tit 1:8; Tit 2:2 & 4; Tit 2:6; I Peter 1:13; I Peter 4:7; I Peter 5:8.

Anastasions writes: "Laughter is a remedy for the harshness of life." But where are we taught to avoid the "harshness of life", which is the pursuit of pleasure? Christ says the following about happiness: "… that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full." He also indicates where this joy comes from: "If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my father’s commandments, and abide in his love" (John 15: 10 – 11). Here we have the answer to the age-old question. True happiness, true joy, is God’s love, and being with Him.

In the overall scheme of things I think this subject of laughter needs to be one a priest instructs his spiritual children on depending on how advanced they are spiritually - my intention is not to tell everyone they cannot or should not laugh. My intention here is to only illustrate that Christ did not laugh, He being the perfect man, the model, the High Priest.

icxn
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Post by icxn »

17: Tell us, then, what you think. Is it lawful to pay laughter to Caesar, or not?" 18: But Jesus, aware of their malice, said, "Why put me to the test, you hypocrites? 19: Show me the money for the tax." And they brought him a jester. 20: And Jesus said to them, "Whose likeness (...) is this?" 21: They said, "Caesar's." Then he said to them, "Render therefore to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's." (cf. Mat. 22)

icxn

OrthodoxyOrDeath

Post by OrthodoxyOrDeath »

17: Tell us, then, what you think. Is it lawful to pay laughter to Caesar, or not?" 18: But Jesus, aware of their malice, said, "Why put me to the test, you hypocrites? 19: Show me the money for the tax." And they brought him a jester. 20: And Jesus said to them, "Whose likeness (...) is this?" 21: They said, "Caesar's." Then he said to them, "Render therefore to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's." (cf. Mat. 22)

Is this the translation of the "Laughing Church" in California?

icxn
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Post by icxn »

OrthodoxyOrDeath wrote:

...
Is this the translation of the "Laughing Church" in California?

No... the point being that laughter, in moderation of course, has its place, albeit in worldly/casual situations. On the other hand with God one needs to be sober.

And since you like monastic wisdom here's some:

A hunter in the desert saw Abba Anthony enjoying himself with the brothers, and he was scandalized. Wanting to show him that it was necessary sometimes to meet the needs of the brothers, the old man said to him, "Put an arrow in your bow and bend it so as to shoot." So he did. And the old man said, "Bend it a little more," and he did so. Then the old man said, "Bend it yet again," and the hunter replied, "If I bend my bow so much, I will break it." Then the old man said to him, "It is the same with the work of God. If we stretch the brothers beyond measure, they will soon break. Sometimes it is necessary to come down to meet their need.

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Liudmilla
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Post by Liudmilla »

I am genuinely perplexed.....OOD you didn't approve of my use of the child's example okay....here another......

By your analogy the joy, laughter and light-spritiedness that I, as an adult. feel after I have received communion is then sinful???

Seems a bit absurd......

The laughter and Joy and light spiritedness I feel at the baptism of an adult (I won't say child, since you don't like that example) is again sinful???

Watching a breath-taking sunset and marveling at GOD's creation, feeling the joy and laughter and light spiritedness that comes from that feeling is also by your definition sinful.....

Why does sober have to equate with miserable, sad and down trodden? or even emotionless?

As I said I'm perplexed......

And for your information, I'm not from a Protestant background....for that matter I haven't a clue as to their teachings and certainly don't care about their teachings. I think your whole presumption is full of holes and I certainly Imagine that God is laughing at the absurdity of this whole discussion.... I often wonder how he puts up with us.

Milla

romiosini

Post by romiosini »

I hope no one gets offended...

I will use an example my patron guardian Saint, Venerable Saint Seraphim of Sarov the Wonderworker. He is known to be the Saint of Joy. (Ο Άγιος της Χαράς) Why? Well the spiritual joy of the Resurection was with him all year long non-stop all his life. Rejoicing, and laughing meaninglessly (as a goof) are two different things. When the Virgin Mary was at the Wedding of Cana with Her Son, didn't they have to at least with a smile since it is a wedding? On the usual basis, a marriage is a day of joy, when 2 become one with GOD. I saw many Monastics Saints, who have rejoiced with spiritual joy. Let us not be fanatic, and ban what is natural God given to us. Even Adam and Eve rejoiced for living in the pleasent life of Paradise.

Christ is Risen!

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