THE SUNDAY OF THE TRIUMPH OF ORTHODOXY

Patristic theology, and traditional teachings of Orthodoxy from the Church fathers of apostolic times to the present. All forum Rules apply. No polemics. No heated discussions. No name-calling.


OrthodoxyOrDeath

Post by OrthodoxyOrDeath »

Chrisitian1,

You just hit the nail on the head: It is interesting how people interpret the bible, but just so you know, Orthodox Christians do not do this. I think it is clear by now that a hundred people will conclude with a hundred different meanings of Holy Scripture which is why there are so many denominations today. I think it would be important for you to know that Orthodox Christians do not interpret Holy Scripture, rather its meaning is passed down to us from generation to generation, in verbal and written form. This is what we call Holy Tradition. In fact, Holy Scripture itself says to do this.

Now about the Sabbath: you are accusing the Orthodox of things we have not done. You said, “If you change the saturday sabbath of the 4th commandment to Sunday…” We have not done this.

I believe you are applying what you know of other churches, mainly of Roman Catholic and Protestant lineage, to us Orthodox. This is quite ironic for us, because we are the only ones to have indeed kept Holy Tradition while everyone else was changing anything and everything in the west. Saturday (as well as Sunday), has always been regarded by the Orthodox as a festival, and while it originally was also in most churches of the West, but like everything else, this was changed and lost. To see this you should read the Apostolic Constitutions, the Apostolic Canons and canons xvi, xlix., li of the Council of Laodicæa. We wrote these canons hundreds and hundreds of years ago as this is what we have always practiced.

Now you say, “Honoring sunday above Gods sabbath, would be breaking Gods law.” In our cycle of services (which was the way all Christians once practiced), every week represents the last week of Christs life; so just as Friday represents the Crucifixion before the Sabbath, Sunday was the day of the resurrection. So we do not honor “Sunday” above the Sabbath, rather, we honor the great and glorious and holy resurrection of our Lord far above the Sabbath, because the greatest of all the commandments is to love our Lord and Savior with all of our hearts and all of our minds; He who sacrificed Himself for our sake.

In addition, it is also written, “And sanctify ye the Sabbath of the Lord with clean hands and a pure heart.” We cannot do this truly except through the Resurrection.

So we don't break God's law, we uphold it perfectly.


In the Lord's Resurrection, as in a lens, the greatest proofs of Christian Truth are concentrated. Gospel preachers, let the Resurrection of the Lord be the center of your teaching. Refer to it constantly.

Do you want to preach about the holiness, the sinlessness of Christ? Preach about His Resurrection. This is the greatest tangible proof of His blameless, sinless life; for, being impure and guilty through original sin and our own sin, everyone without exception falls under the penalty, the sword of death. Death is the reward of sin, but there is One who committed no sin, who was without guile. He is outside original sin, free of any sin of His own, devoid of sin. Proof? The Resurrection.

Death could not hold the sinless One. It had no power over Him. Do you want to preach that the sacrifice on Golgotha was unique, that it was offered to remit the sins of the world, and that the Blood of Jesus Christ purifies us of every sin? Use the Lord's Resurrection. This is the answer of Heaven, that the sacrifice on the Cross was accepted.

This is like another fire which once descended from the sky and consumed the sacrificial offering of the prophet Elijah and certified that the sacrifice was accepted. Do you want to console those who are grieving the death of a loved one? Show them the empty tomb. Just as the Lord rose from the dead, so the dead will arise and on their tombs will be written, "they are not here." Do you want to show that the power of evil and deception is temporary, that the victory ultimately belongs to purity and truth? Use the Resurrection. It is the triumph of the Righteous One.

Do you have before you sinners -- and who isn't? -- who can groan under the heavy burden of their sins, and who cannot, with all their knowledge and philosophy, budge this burden, who live a wretched life, worse than a thousand deaths in their multifarious graves of sin? Do you find yourself before sinners? Ah, then, above all preach with all your lungs' power, with all the vehemence of your believing heart, the Resurrected Lord. He who rose from the dead can raise those dead in transgressions from their graves of sin. He "grants resurrection to the fallen."

Gospel workers, open your Bibles. See how the prophets and Apostles preached, above all the Apostle to the Nations, St. Paul. Study the appropriate New Testament passages which extol the magnificence of the Resurrection and see how priceless a diadem comes from this foundation of truth (Matt. 28; Mark 16; Luke 24; John 20 and 21; Acts 3:15, 5:30, 10:40-41; Romans 1:4, 4:25, 5:1-11, 6:4; 1 Corinthians 15; Phillipians 2:7-11; Col 3:1-4; I Thessalonians 4:14; Hebrews 13:20-21; I John1:1-4; Revelation 1-18). "Follow Me," by Bishop Augoustinos N. Kantiotes (Bishop of Florina in Greece), (Belmont, Massachusetts:Institute for Byzantine and Modern Greek Studies, 1989), pp. 265-269

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Post by CHRISTIAN 1 »

QUOTE: In addition, it is also written, “And sanctify ye the Sabbath of the Lord with clean hands and a pure heart.” We cannot do this truly except through the Resurrection.
Throughout the bible, the saturday sabbath commandment was followed, without having to honor sunday far and above saturday. I just don't understand the reasoning behind sunday. God never asked that we honor sunday. The resurrection is nonetheless a magnificant and glorious event. To give honor to sunday would seem to be following the traditions of men, and not the commandments of God.

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Acts 20:7 & 2 Thessalonians 2:15

Post by 尼古拉前执事 »

The traditions of the apostles, who were taught by the God-Man, they were taught to "break bread" (Divine Liturgy with Communion) on the 8th or 1st day of the week

Acts 20:7.

And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.

2 Thessalonians 2:15
Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

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Post by CHRISTIAN 1 »

Quote:
Acts 20:7.

And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.

In Greek this verse reads "and upon the first of the sabbaths". Being the weekly sabbath Paul gave the sermon.

OrthodoxyOrDeath

Post by OrthodoxyOrDeath »

Christian1,

God never asked that we honor sunday. The resurrection is nonetheless a magnificant and glorious event. To give honor to sunday would seem to be following the traditions of men, and not the commandments of God.

I didn't think you would understand very well because most people in Western countries do not understand Orthodoxy, some people even think you're Jewish when they hear "Orthodoxy". :) That is no fault of your own I suppose, but I would like to offer a small glimpse into this one point.

The farther and farther back into Christian history you go, the more you will see that ALL Christians believed as Orthodox Christians believe now. Not only that, but forms of worship, services, and practice also become identical to the Orthodox. Forget about everything you have ever heard about Roman Catholicism being the "defender of tradition" or that they have maintained the same faith - they may not have been the first revolutionaries, but have sure been the best at it. In ancient times there were 5 important centers of Christianity that were all equal - Rome, Constantinople, Jerusalem, Antioch, and Alexandria. Of these, Rome spilt away to become the popes religion, and the others went on and maintained the Orthodox faith.

Rome's version of history has become the accepted rule of Church history in the West, that even Protestants base their on it. But in the East, the Orthodox see things very differently.

Have you ever wondered why "Christians" celebrate "Easter" every year, why they celebrate the Nativity of Christ in December, why chruches "traditionally" had altars, but most of all, who were the people that practiced these things in the earliest times and what did they believe? Could we agree that the farther and farther back in history you go, all the way up to the people who knew the Apostles and the actual apostles themselves, the closer we will get to the True Faith? Well, we believe the same things as those people.

I am saying all of this to lay a sliver of groundwork about "Sunday" and the sabbath. The farther and farther baqck you go into Christian history, the more you will see that Christians worshipped on a cycle of services. There was a yearly cycle, and within that was a monthly cycle, and within that was a weekly cycle. In many cases it was not really important on what day or date a feastday fell on, it was only important that all true believing Christians did it on the same day to be united. The weekly cycle of services have always represented the last week in Christ's life, culminating in his Resurrection on Sunday, the first day of the week - a new beginning.

All the days have been ordained by Christ, the Sabbath was the only one set aside by Him. We celebrate the Ressurection on Sunday because it was the day Christ resurrected. Remember, He was quickly slain and taken down from the cross as the sun was setting marking the beginning of the Sabbath. It may also interest you to know that Orthodox Christians even now mark the new day with the setting of the Sun.

Therefore, what I am trying to say in my disorganized and rambling discourse, is that we have not set up "Sunday" as a cometitor to the Sabbath or as a replacment, its just that this was the day Christ was raised from the dead. We mark it with celebrations just like mankind has been marking great events for all time, on its anniversary. -- Just don't tell my wife I said that, she doesn't think I mark our anniversary very well at all. ;)

In the Orthodox Chrurch, if a priest does not "Feast" on the Sabbath (Saturday) he can be deposed.

Now you mentioned something about tradition. The "traditions of men" are all the new ideas people come up with, often thinking they have uncovered some brilliant new theology, when in fact, they are just breathing in the pop-culture around them and giving it a name. This is why Methodists all believe the same way, and Lutherans all believe the same way, and Mormons all believe the same way, and why Branch Davidians all believe the same way, generation and generation. They are taught to believe and practice a certain way - every church is like this since each new tradition was invented. These are the traditions of men.

The Traditions of God are those things Christ gave to the Apostles which Holy Scripture says were not all written down, and that if they were written down the books would fill the whole world!! These are the Traditions of God, which have been handed down from generation to generation, and which Satan desparaley wants to destroy. These traditions of Christ are kept and have always been kept undergaurd by the Church of Christ, which now must have an earthly name to distinguish itself from all the earthly competition - The Orthodox Church.

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Post by CHRISTIAN 1 »

QUOTE: Now you mentioned something about tradition. The "traditions of men" are all the new ideas people come up with, often thinking they have uncovered some brilliant new theology, when in fact, they are just breathing in the pop-culture around them and giving it a name.


The traditions of men are not all new ideas. A very old tradition in which the catholic church takes credit for is "transferring the solemnity from saturday to sunday." (the converts catechism of catholic doctrine 1946 e.d. pg. 50)
When speaking of the ten commandment sabbath Matt 5:18-19 says:
For verily I say unto you, till HEAVEN AND EARTH PASS AWAY(forever), one jot or one title shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
whosoever therefore shall break ONE of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."
Here is Jesus' prophecy of an event that took place in 70 a.d., 40 years after his crucifixion: Matt 24:20-But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
The saturday sabbath is the Lords day of worship that was meant to be observed forever, till the heaven and earth pass away. Jesus even says we will worship Him "from one sabbath to the next" in heaven.

OrthodoxyOrDeath

Post by OrthodoxyOrDeath »

The traditions of men are not all new ideas. A very old tradition in which the catholic church takes credit for is "transferring the solemnity from saturday to sunday." (the converts catechism of catholic doctrine 1946 e.d. pg. 50)

The popes church is an invention from around 1054 AD - yes it is very old. They have many inventions but why must we bring them up?

The saturday sabbath is the Lords day of worship that was meant to be observed forever...

This is not part of the ten commandments; so if the law also includes something outside the strict and very limited confines of the ten commandments, should I expect that you also follow Jewish dietary restrictions? (I don't mean that in a confrontational way, I'm just curious which part of the old law you follow and which parts you don't, and by what authority you have made these decisions).

Last edited by OrthodoxyOrDeath on Tue 3 May 2005 2:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
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