THE CRISIS IN ROMAN CATHOLICISM AND THE LAST POPE

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Ekaterina
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THE CRISIS IN ROMAN CATHOLICISM AND THE LAST POPE

Post by Ekaterina »

JOHN-PAUL II:
THE CRISIS IN ROMAN CATHOLICISM AND THE LAST POPE

Fr Andrew..... http://www.orthodoxengland.btinternet.co.uk/hp.htm

The media frenzy around the declining health and death of the late Pope John-Paul II seems very curious to Orthodox Christians. Popes (whether of Rome or of Alexandria), Patriarchs, Metropolitans and all other bishops come and go. Their coming and going make little difference to Orthodox, for the Church, being the Body of Christ, does not depend on any human personalities, even if they are saints. The Church, Whose Head is the Risen Christ, depends on the Holy Spirit, of Whom all saints and all bishops, like the rest of us, are mere agents. This is a basic premise of Orthodox ecclesiology.

The Roman Catholic understanding that the Pope of Rome is the Head of the Church, the Vicar of Christ, seems very strange to Christian Orthodoxy. Not only does all this imply that Christ is not the Head of the Church, but also that at the present time there is no Head of the Roman Catholic Church. And how could the Church have had a Head, and at that an infallible one, who was unable to speak? And how can an elite group of Roman Catholic bishops, known as cardinals, bestow on one of themselves infallible authority? And how can Roman Catholicism therefore even survive in any interregnum, after one Pope of Rome has died, but before the next one has been elected?

However, the unanswered questions of Orthodox Theology apart, there is no doubt that Pope John-Paul II will go down in history. Although a controversial figure, he was one of the most active and outstanding Roman Catholic Popes of Rome. His courageous survival of the attempted KGB-organized assassination in 1981, and the link between it and the events in Fatima in 1917, remain enigmatic. Of course, it is true that the Orthodox interpretation of the events of Fatima are quite different from those of Roman Catholicism. On the other hand, this Pope's insistence on the parallel between the genocide of tens of millions of Slavs, Jews and others under Fascism and the abortion holocaust of the modern 'politically-correct' West was fully Orthodox, as was his courageous stand against Communism.

Above all, however, in many ways this Pope was the first truly global Pope of Rome. Through his many visits to over one hundred different countries all over the world, he was the first to embody the claims of the Roman Catholic Primate to world supremacy. There is little doubt that various powerful groupings within Roman Catholicism will very, very soon, be promoting the cause of his beatification and canonization will follow in the near future.

From an Orthodox viewpoint, all of this will go to show just how different the concept of holiness in the Orthodox Church is from that in Roman Catholicism. True, no Orthodox Christian would doubt the sincerity, courage and many other qualities of the late John-Paul II. Compared to so many scandalous and criminal Popes of the Middle Ages and the Renaissance, Celestine III (1191-98), Innocent III (1198-1216), Alexander VI (1492-1503), Julius II (1503-1513), Leo X (1513-21), to name but a few, he was a man of Christian values, as was seen in his illness. On the other hand, it must be said that his Papacy left Orthodox-Catholic relations, especially in Russia and Eastern Europe, near an all-time low.

From a Roman Catholic viewpoint, there are also many other concerns. Pope John-Paul II has with reason been dubbed 'the most admired, but the least obeyed Pope'. In fact he leaves behind him a difficult inheritance. He leaves an organization which is incredibly weakened, both in faith and in finance. In fact, in the Western world, Roman Catholicism never recovered from the Second Vatican Council. To say that that Council 'protestantized' Roman Catholicism is really unfair to Protestantism - at least to the old orthodox variety. In fact, that Council altogether secularized Roman Catholicism, putting man and his self-admiration at the centre of things, in place of Christ ('Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man' (Rev. 13,18)).

The tendency for modern Roman Catholicism to forget the next world and put the 'Third World' in its place typifies the whole secularized Western world which seems to have replaced the Gospel of Christ with the Gospel of sociology. Had Roman Catholicism resisted the secularist agenda of the 1960s and not desacralized itself, perhaps the Western world would not be where it is today. (However, most Orthodox would tend to affirm that this whole process was inevitable anyway, merely being the ugliest part of the inevitable end-game of the millennium-long filioque process). The problem is that, having squandered their post-Tridentine liturgical heritage for a mess of modernist pottage, even if Roman Catholics did return to their Faith, they would have little of liturgical worth to return to.

More recently, in both Western Europe and the United States, Roman Catholicism has been undermined by dramatic homosexual and pedophile scandals. Here Pope John Paul II leaves a largely bankrupt organization (and not only in the financial sense), desperately short of clergy, and a people who, where they have not entirely lapsed, are often in a state of revolt and apostasy. The pedophile scandal in the USA has cost Roman Catholicism nearly a billion dollars so far and one diocese has had to sell off 80 churches to pay out compensation. Over 4,000 pedophile priests have been exposed and more than 100,000 victims of such priests have already come forward in the USA alone.

Thus, to many outside the former Western colonies in Africa, Asia and Latin America, Roman Catholicism appears to have become the empty shell of a once mighty institution. There are even those who forecast an imminent collapse of the whole near-millenial structure of Roman Catholicism in the faithless Western world. Perhaps, if an African Pope were now elected (in Africa they have not forgotten the next world in favour of the 'Third World'), he could send Roman Catholic missionaries from faithful Africa to the Roman Catholics of the darkest West. God knows, the once Roman Catholic West needs them

As a result of these events in Rome the attention of many has been drawn to the much-disputed 'Prophecies of St Malachy'. Archbishop Malachy (1094-1148) was a Roman Catholic prelate of Armagh and one of the pioneers of Roman Catholicism in Ireland, imposing the anti-Orthodox Gregorian reforms there. His so-called 'Prophecies' are in fact a list of short symbolic sayings given to 111 Popes from 1143 on. In reality they were almost certainly not written by him, but were first published, and perhaps entirely written, in 1595 by a certain Dom Arnold de Wyon under Malachy's name. Each saying consists of a phrase of two to four words in Latin, which are said to sum up the essence of each Pope.

For example the motto of Pope John Paul II was 'De Labore Solis', meaning 'From the Sun's Labour'. This has been interpreted as referring to the fact that this Pope was born on the day of a total eclipse, since the phrase 'the sun's labour' is a medieval Latin phrase meaning an eclipse. Others interpret it as meaning that this Pope, who is from Eastern Europe, where the sun rises as viewed from Western Europe, is also one of the most hard-working in history, with his countless voyages, canonizations, encyclicals and reorganizations. Yet others interpret the saying as meaning that, in his time, Papal power will be eclipsed.

Despite their disputed origins and interpretations, these cryptic sayings have recently attracted attention for one simple reason. As we have said, they refer to 111 Popes from the time of St Malachy on. The first of these is Celestine II (1143-4) and Pope John-Paul II is the 110th. In other words, according to these 'Prophecies', there is only one Pope to come. This one, the 111th, is referred to in the 'Prophecies' as 'De Gloria Olivae' ('From the Glory of the Olive').

These mysterious words have already been interpreted by some to signify that the next Pope will be a peacemaker. By others they have been given an apocalyptic significance, since Christ gave his disciples details of the end of the world on the Mount of Olives (Matt. 24,3 onwards). Moreover, after the saying for the 111th Pope, the 'Prophecies' end with a prophetic 'coda' or saying. This declares that the last Pope in history will be called Peter and after him will come the end of the world.

Looking at this from an Orthodox viewpoint, could this mean quite simply, not that the next Pope will be the last in world history, but that he will be the last Roman Catholic Pope? That he will merely be the last of the near thousand-year history of the Roman Catholic Papacy? And that he will at last be succeeded by the return to an Orthodox Papacy in Rome, not explained in these 'Prophecies', before the end comes? This certainly is the thousand-year prayer of all Orthodox Christians who have awaited repentance before the end.

The fact is that, whether these 'Prophecies' are nonsense or not, Roman Catholicism is now facing challenges greater than any others it has faced since the eleventh century, when it was first created by breaking away from the Orthodox Church. Only the future will tell us where the remnants of the heritage of the Orthodox West, still contained within Roman Catholicism, are destined.

Fr Andrew

Last edited by Ekaterina on Thu 7 April 2005 8:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
spyridon

Post by spyridon »

"The Roman Catholic understanding that the Pope of Rome is the Head of the Church, the Vicar of Christ, seems very strange to Christian Orthodoxy. Not only does all this imply that Christ is not the Head of the Church, but also that at the present time there is no Head of the Roman Catholic Church"

Well we must remember that trying to understand someone elses belief is against Orthodoxy-our whole meaning is to repent and love all,including those that are lost...Catholics honest understanding
of the head of the Church (Ekaterina) is meant as the head in reguards
of human (sinning) form here on EARTH.Catholics very much acknowledge
the Head of the church as God(trinity).But in Catholic belief Jesus Christ appointed a leader/messenger and the Church of Rome gave him a Throne and when that Throne is empty,they honestly believe all
of the evil ones angels are on the prowl and the church suffers
extreme attacks.history of a Thousand years plus shows in writing
that all the members of the church must know of the Throne sitting empty,so that we could engage in constant prayer and take part in those services of the church.Christ appointed a Human of Pious and faithful zeal to sit at this Earthly Throne for a reason,We call it
Apostolic succession.if we eliminate this Apostolic succesion then we
start falling more into confusion..at this point in 2005 there are 1.086 Billion Catholics in the World all following and mourning the Pope..not to turn heads But what is The Patriarch of Moscows responsibility other than that of the Pope of Rome..How bout all the other Patri-archs,and metroplolitans etc.They too have the see of running the Vladykas of the synod,or jurisdiction,etc...Catholicism never says that the POPE is now running the church,but that he is overseeing its politics,while the Holy Spirit giudes and God O.K.s decisions....not to be an idiot but can you imagine God up in heaven as he watches us dabble in who is right and who is wrong,its turned into a big game of monopoly,eventually one by one we will all see that there isnt a wrong or a right
only the Truth! which lies in every one of our Hearts.
that my friends, is our only connection to our Saviour Jesus Christ..................
when we start medling in Heir-Arch politics is when the presence of the evil one is near,for he knows such heated debate will denounce our Savior`s message to us all...LOVE
Trust God,Clean House,and Help Others

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joasia
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Post by joasia »

but also that at the present time there is no Head of the Roman Catholic Church.

This is an amazing statement that people should note. It's like the Vatican is run like a government...on a purely worldly level. Never looking up, but looking side to side.

Above all, however, in many ways this Pope was the first truly global Pope of Rome. Through his many visits to over one hundred different countries all over the world, he was the first to embody the claims of the Roman Catholic Primate to world supremacy.

He did cover more ground than Alexander the Great. The pope was a great politician, that's for sure.

Here Pope John Paul II leaves a largely bankrupt organization (and not only in the financial sense), desperately short of clergy, and a people who, where they have not entirely lapsed, are often in a state of revolt and apostasy.

Maybe, that's why they will eventually allow women clergy. Women have a more sensitive nature and they can't do any worse then the male pedophiles have done. Plus, it's the 21st century of equal rights..right?

This declares that the last Pope in history will be called Peter and after him will come the end of the world.

Looking at this from an Orthodox viewpoint, could this mean quite simply, not that the next Pope will be the last in world history, but that he will be the last Roman Catholic Pope?

If he would be the last Roman Catholic Pope, then that WOULD mean the last pope in the world. Once they have fallen, what would be left...the anti-christ?

I heard, a long time ago, that the pope before the last, would be Polish. It seemed outlandish, since all the popes were Italian, but then it happened. And during the time of the last pope, the anti-christ would reveal himself.

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joasia
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Post by joasia »

Well we must remember that trying to understand someone elses belief is against Orthodoxy-our whole meaning is to repent and love all,including those that are lost...

We have neither the strength nor the authority to stop Apostasy, as Bishop Ignatius stresses: " Do not attempt to stop it with your weak hand..." But, what then should we do? " Avoid it, protect yourself from it, and that is enough for you. Get to know the spirit of the times, study it so that you can avoid its influence whenever possible". This is what the same Bishop Ignatius teaches.

We must be clearly aware of the kind of time in which we live. Indeed, only a spiritually blind roan, or one who had already sold his soul to the enemies of our holy faith and Church, could fail to sense the spirit of the appraching anti-christ in everything which is now happening in the world. Of what sort of genuine union of all Christians in the spirit of Christian love can one speak now when the Truth is denied by almost everyone, when deceit is in control almost everywhere, when a genuinely spiritual life among people who call themselves Christians has dried up and been replaced by a carnal life, an animal life which has nonetheless been placed on a pedestal and concealed by the idea of pretended charity which hypocritically justifies any sort of spiritual excess, any sort of moral anarchy.

A terrible, unrelieved, hopeless unscrupulousness has taken possession of many people. The true doctrine of the faith and the Church for which the first Christians died in such tortures has become a hollow sound for the majority of modern "Christians". They neither know this doctrine, nor do they desire to know it, for they are indifferent to it....

This is the so very fashionable, so-called "ecumenical movement", which is based on the position that supposedly the true Chruch of Christ does not presently exist on earth and it is necessary to create it anew...through the unification of all Christians belonging to various "chruches" and confessional associations and organizations; this will be done by various mutual concessions in matters of doctrine and the development of a new, common system of doctrine acceptable to all and, along with it, of course , a new world view.

Yes! God is one, but you know, He also gave us one faith; He created one Chruch for us, not many different faiths and "churches". this is confirmed by the holy Apostle Paul when he says, "One Lord, one faith, on baptism, one God and Father of all," and so we Christians should form "one body and one spirit," as we are called to "in one hope of our calling" (Eph. 4;4-6)

If there is only one true faith and only one true Chruch, then as a consequence, all other faiths and "churches" are FALSE, not true. How then can anyone say that all faiths and "chruches" are of equal value and that "it is all the same which church you go to".

Therefore one can and must speak not of the ecumenical unification of everyone for the creation of some new Chruch, but only of the restoration of union between all who have fallen away and the one true Church of Christ to which Christ the Saviour Himself gave the great and sure promise that " the gates of hell will not prevail against It" (Matt. 16;eighteen)
(From the various writings of Archbishop Averky, of Blessed Memory).

But in Catholic belief Jesus Christ appointed a leader/messenger and the Church of Rome gave him a Throne

This is pure papist dogma. The pope isn't the intercessor from God. The Orthodox belief is that the appointed bishop is the intercessor for the people. He is the one that should be praying to God for mercy for all of us, not that God appointed him to rule over us.

Christ appointed a Human of Pious and faithful zeal to sit at this Earthly Throne for a reason,We call it Apostolic succession.

Apostolic succession is based on upholding the traditions passed on from Christ...which, since, I last looked, the papist church has apostized from it in 1054 A.D. and has never repented. They have given up their place of Apostolic success with their free will and will have to answer for that.

You mention, earthly throne. God did not give the Apostles an earthly throne, nor did the saints labor for an earthly throne. Their hearts focused on the heavenly throne, a seat, by the right side of God.

Catholicism never says that the POPE is now running the church,but that he is overseeing its politics,while the Holy Spirit giudes and God O.K.`s decisions....

Since they have been heretic since 1054 A.D. they are independent from God's path. The Holy Spirit will not approve of their actions of apostacy. The pope sees himself as infallible and that raises himself to the level of God...that's blasphemy. Nobody is infallible, but Christ our Lord and Saviour.

overseeing its politics,

Politics. That's a worldly position. The pope was a great politician.

not to be an idiot but can you imagine God up in heaven as he watches us dabble in who is right and who is wrong,its turned into a big game of monopoly,eventually one by one we will all see that there isnt a wrong or a right

Tell that to all the Orthodox saints and martyrs who knew what the truth was. The world dabbles...the true Orthodox faithful KNOW what is true. They are not confused.

only the Truth! which lies in every one of our Hearts.
that my friends, is our only connection to our Saviour Jesus Christ..................
when we start medling in Heir-Arch politics is when the presence of the evil one is near,for he knows such heated debate will denounce our Savior`s message to us all...LOVE
Trust God,Clean House,and Help Others

I'll give you a starting point....the only connection to our Saviour Jesus Christ is through Holy Communion. I should say, the main connection. God speaks through our hearts, yes, I agree..but the main point of Liturgy is to partake of the Holy Body and Blood of Christ. The prayers before are a preparation and if you might have noticed, after Holy Communion, the service ends quickly. Liturgy is suppose to be the time that we all have the opportunity to partake of God's Body and Blood. He speaks to our hearts, but the message is, that He wants to lead us, eventually to His Holy Communion. But, it must be His and not that of the world.

You have a lot more to learn, my friend. Immerse yourself in the writings of the holy fathers. You will start to glimpse an understanding of the preservation of the true faith that God wants us to follow.

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