Traditional Orthodox Churches in North Carolina

[Stepanov]

Stepanov,

What I was saying is that I am in what Hesychasm would profess as the purification stage. IF after passing through that, then one becomes illumined. It is during that illumination stage that I believe one would be able to discern things correctly. I never stated that one had to wait until perfection for having the ability to discern things correctly.

If a Saint, which many have, has seen the uncreated light, they have reached perfection. This is my understanding.

Besides, any saint, who has reached perfection will never state that they have reached such a state, as they have the greatest treasure of all virtues - humility. (St. Basil)

It would be the people who knew him or her who would make such a statement, not the saint themselves.

I never said that we have to wait until perfection to discern heresy. Please re-read my notes, show me where I said this.

Fault me if you will for doing as I do. I speak from my heart. I am not speaking to gain anyone's favor or acceptance. I was relaying what I have chosen to do.

We can all hurl insults, jabs, etc., at one another, and for what outcome? To prove one or another right? Then pride enters in, or
worse yet, prelest.

Through the prayers of the holy Fathers, Lord Jesus Christ or God, have mercy upon us and save us.

Rd. Chrysostomos

Gotcha.

I didn't hurl any insults and didn't mean to. I hope it didn't seem like I did.

You may know more about Hesychasm than I do, but I am a little leery about any kind of claims of perfection in this life, no matter whom is discussed.

[Miriam]

I hope that Jim does not use us as an example of what it means to be Orthodox.... for we are a sorry lot indeed! :ohvey:

Mira

[jimhuffman]

To Miriam and all --

I think it's the nature of internet discussion groups that it gets a bit heated at times. It doesn't trouble me, nor make me think less of Orthodoxy. (You should see the heat on the Lutheran lists ... : ) When we feel strongly about the truth, there will be heated discussions. Sometimes those discussions will go too far. When they do, God's forgiveness is there for all of our sins, including over-much zeal for the truth.

I'm actually finding this helpful. I appreciate everyone's thoughts.

Jim Huffman

[Joseph]

Were the Holy Fathers of the Councils sorry individuals for issuing anathamas against hersey? Were St. Maximus and St. Mark sorry people for speaking out forcefully against heresy and defending the faith? Some thought St. Nicholas was a sorry person for slaping Arius at the Council but the Holy Spirit revealed differently. Many of the saints spoke harshly against heresy and heretics. In our day the passion for truth has been lost and everyone embraces a false and sickly concept of human love which is the very basis of ecumenism and syncretism. Love is first and foremost concern for the truth for without truth there can be no true love.

The following is from the web site of The Orthodox Christian Information Center:

It is the duty of the entire Church, the Royal Priesthood of Believers, to not only be aware of the issues, but to speak out against clear and public violations of our Tradition in order to preserve it: "...because the protector of religion is the very body of the Church, even the people themselves..."—Encyclical of the Eastern Patriarchs, 1848. In his First Sorrowful Epistle, the ever-memorable Metropolitan Philaret stated, "Can any one of us be silent if he sees that many of his brethren simultaneously are walking along a path that leads them and their flock to a disastrous precipice through their unwitting loss of Orthodoxy?"

On March 16, 1997, the world-renowned Orthodox scholar and layman, Dr. Constantine Cavarnos, made the following statements during a lecture at the Greek Orthodox Cathedral of the Annunciation in Atlanta, GA: "We must all rise to our responsibility to our holy Orthodox Faith, and speak out that we do not accept the Decree of the recent Synod of Balamand, and we will not accept the Decrees of any other Pseudo Synod that might be convoked in the years ahead....The time has come for all faithful Orthodox Christians to speak out and promptly put to an end this spurious form of Orthodoxy known as 'ecumenistic Orthodoxy'. It is a betrayal of the Holy Orthodox Church, a negation of its essence." (Victories of Orthodoxy, pp. 80-81, emphasis his)

[Chrysostomos]

Joseph,

Were the Holy Fathers of the Councils sorry individuals for issuing anathamas against hersey? Were St. Maximus and St. Mark sorry people for speaking out forcefully against heresy and defending the faith? Some thought St. Nicholas was a sorry person for slaping Arius at the Council but the Holy Spirit revealed differently.

The difference is that they were saints, and you and I are not. Oh that you and I were living lives like the saints you mentioned!

Many of the saints spoke harshly against heresy and heretics.

Rightly said - Amen!

In our day the passion for truth has been lost and everyone embraces a false and sickly concept of human love which is the very basis of ecumenism and syncretism.

I would say, in our day the passion for living the truth has been lost. Any Orthodox Christian, can stand up for the truth, that they could see in the canons, the writings of the fathers, yet they at the same time are not "living" the truth. That's the Pharisee's lifestyle in a nutshell. They were standing up for the truth, yet, not living it. "They honor me with their lips, yet their hearts are far away from me." All of us are called to live a sacrificial life, one in which we with God's help, crucify the flesh with its passions and desire. To live not only in the Spirit, but to also to walk in the Spirit. Not becoming conceited, provoking one another, envying one another - rightly said by St. Paul. The love that the Orthodox Christian is told to embrace, is not one based upon the worldly concept of human love. This is the same love that I choose to embrace. Espoused by St. Paul, the other apostles, early church fathers, and our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Let's pray for the unity of the Eastern Orthodox Church, and for the salvation of the world. St. Basil said, "Humility is the treasure of all virtues". May we with all humility, humble ourselves and approach the throne of grace to obtain mercy and find grace to help in the time of need.

[Joseph]

How can you preach, interpret, admonish and discern like that when you haven't been illuminated? Don't get me wrong, I think it's great. It just doens't seem consistent with your reluctance to speak based on your lack of illumination? Suddently, you seem illumined! I'm glad!

[Ekaterina]

I just love Orthodox personalities.....if you can't brow-beat someone to your way of thinking... well you just HAVE to resort to sarcasm.... we truly are a sorry lot!

And just to clarify things.... for joseph....I mean us miserable humans and NOT any saint, elder, bishop[, cleric, or ancient holy writer ...I mean US and that includes you Joseph. :ohvey:

Katya