AN ORTHODOX VIEW OF HARRY POTTER

[OrthodoxyOrDeath]

CGW,

I think we will have to agree to disagree.

[ania]

The Orthodox, a people who are ever ready to die, are trained in stubbornness so that they more easily despise life, once its ties have been cut, as it were, and lose their craving for that which, as far as they themselves are concerned, have already made empty of everything desirable.

Um, since when are we supposed to despise life? I thought it was a gift from God and the reason why suicide is a sin.

This is precisley what Orthodox Christians struggle and strive to do, to free themselves from pleasures and vices. It would indeed be loathsome for people continuing in the enjoyment of delightful pleasures to die for God.

Pleasures & vices are not equal to each other. And the 2nd sentance makes no sense at all.

Clearly, the more we separate ourselves from pleasure, the more we free ourselves from the world. But I do not expect that everyone can free themselves from every pleasure; but Orthodox Christians should at the very least recognize that these things are not virtues and activities they should defend.

The more we seperate ourselves from TEMPTATION, the more we free ourselves from this world. There is a difference. If you take pleasure out of watching the sunset, and thank God for it, that is good, not bad. If you take pleasure in eating a good meal with your family, and thank God for the food and for your loved ones' company, that is good, not bad. If you take pleasure in watching children play and laugh, and thank God for their happiness, that is good, not bad.
Taking pleasure in what you have been given by God is good, not bad.
Desire was also given to us by God, otherwise we would not DESIRE to reach the kingdom of heaven. Taking pleasure in what God gave us, and knowing that what what we have is not even a drop in the ocean compared to what he will give us in His Kingdom, striving (or desiring, same thing in this case) to enter his Kingdom, is the way I was taught from birth that Orthodox people should view the world.

And nothing that was just said even brushes on the demonic nature of the HP books.

Since you haven't read them, or given us any ORTHODOX sources saying he is evil, how would you know?

[Ephraem]

Let me suppose that OOD is neither a heretic or some kind of gnostic-dualist, but that his words are perhaps only unusually fervent. They likely betray only a great love for monasticism, and the greatest of men St. John the Forerunner, who was faulted wrongly by the Jews for his violent asceticism.

[joasia]

Um, since when are we supposed to despise life?

It's the worldly life, not the life that God gave us.

The more we seperate ourselves from TEMPTATION, the more we free ourselves from this world.

Temptations never stop until we die. Even the saints admitted that they are attacked with temptations. They come in many forms. But, temptations can be defeated...until the next one comes along, and so and so forth.

Taking pleasure in what you have been given by God is good, not bad.

There is nothing wrong with that. But, I think OOD is referring to the negative pleasures of the world. Although, the ascetic monk saints have even left their families behind in order to live their lives entirely for God....like St. Alexis, the man of God.

I know, I know, there were ascetic monk saints who still kept contact with their families or were surrounded by people that they loved and loved them. But, we're talking about the extreme range of leaving this world and living completely for God.

Desire was also given to us by God, otherwise we would not DESIRE to reach the kingdom of heaven.

Love for God is what inspires us to do His Will. And hope in God for His mercy is what I feel, because in the end, God decides if I will enter His Kingdom.

Your choice of the word, desire, tends to twist the scope of the attainment of life for God. Striving for it is an exercise, not a desire. Love for God, is the inspiration for striving for His Kingdom.

Since you haven't read them, or given us any ORTHODOX sources saying he is evil, how would you know?

Is there sorcery involved? Yes. Is there incantations involved? Yes. That's enough for me to know.

Why do you and CGW have such an adament support for this book? What's so great about this book? And don't lash back with: well, if you haven't read it, why should I tell you. That would just be an immature response. How about presenting an intelligent, coherent response.

[ania]

Why do you and CGW have such an adament support for this book? What's so great about this book? And don't lash back with: well, if you haven't read it, why should I tell you. That would just be an immature response. How about presenting an intelligent, coherent response.

To see why I defend the book, see my previous posts, I don't have enough time to resay everything I've already said, rather intelligently and coherently.
I don't adamently support it, I've read it and enjoyed it, and I am adamently defending my right to read for pleasure, and to read books that make you use your imagination... but wait, I already wrote that somewhere already.
Anyway, I think I will probably never see your point, and you most probably won't see mine, and in the mean time I have a babyshower to host & Meet the Press to watch (interesting topic of Christianity, Islam and Judaism in modern society).
Once again I say that I think this thread should be closed as we are just going around the same merry-go-round.

[ania]

Why do you and CGW have such an adament support for this book? What's so great about this book? And don't lash back with: well, if you haven't read it, why should I tell you. That would just be an immature response. How about presenting an intelligent, coherent response.

To see why I defend the book, see my previous posts, I don't have enough time to resay everything I've already rather intelligently and coherently said.
I don't adamently support it,(I have read better books,) I've read it and enjoyed it, and I am adamently defending my right to read for pleasure, and to read books that make me use my imagination... but wait, I already wrote that somewhere already.
Anyway, I think I will probably never see your point, and you most probably won't see mine, and in the mean time I have a babyshower to host & Meet the Press to watch (interesting topic of Christianity, Islam and Judaism in modern society).
Once again I say that I think this thread should be closed as we are just going around the same merry-go-round.

[joasia]

I don't adamently support it,(I have read better books,) I've read it and enjoyed it, and I am adamently defending my right to read for pleasure, and to read books that make me use my imagination... but wait, I already wrote that somewhere already.

Well, the discussion is about the sorcery involved with the book, which is evident, even when seeing the commercials for the movie. And sorcery is forbidden by the holy fathers, even when in a fictious book.

I don't support children reading these books as they have a strong influence on the children, in getting involved with magic, sorcery, witchcraft and the such. It creates a spiritually dangerous involvement.

I am adament about anything that deals with these subjects. I used to do tarot cards for fun, until I came to read the holy fathers against ANYTHING that deals with the demonic spiritual realm, because the source is not from God. These books are an open invitation for children, teenagers to explore that realm of power. It's like a course: 101 on incantations.

Any parent who lets their children read these type of books is allowing them to play with fire, and what parent would allow a child to play with fire? Just because it's wrapped in a fake innocence of fun, doesn't make it right. But, people need discernment in order to see this.

Just a warning: I got interested in ghosts, spirit guides, astral travel, automatic writing and the such when I was 15. Read books by Edgar Cayce and Margret Montegomery(I think her first name was Margret, it's been a long time). I wanted the power. I think it affects teens who feel out of control with their situations or surroundings and it's a call to them, to be in control. Also, the hormones create this psychological imbalance that the teens feel, which makes them vulnerable to this dark exposure. But, the devil waits for their oppurtunity to access these youths. I think I allowed something into the house when I got involved, but I was never controlled. If anything, I felt no positive outcome...like the door was closed to me. It was frustrating. Then I came to hear about Orthodoxy, and left all the demonic spiritual b.s. behind. Believe me, I got attacked for that afterwards.

A book like HP, awakens the interest to get involved more deeply. I don't trust books like this. And I have very good reason not to. I just gave a small example, about what I experienced in my youth, but there are alot more details involved. So to CGW and Ania, I know what I'm talking about; I lived the life of a teen who was obsessed with that spiritual realm. Don't think I am talking in judgement. But, I am talking out of experience. And I will oppose any support of any liturature that is geared towards this type of demonic spiritual world.