Can there be a joint Melkite-Orthodox parish?

[Maria]

Stepanov,

Where do you live (if you don't mind saying)?

http://www.thegreekorthodoxchurch.com/

The above link is to our synod in NY, it has a list of our churches in the US. There is not much in the states unfortunatley.

The ROAC has churches around the country, and there are some others if that doesn't do it.

Right now I live in Stockton, California, but I will probably be leaving for the East Coast (or at least east of the Mississippi) this summer, God willing.

Dear Stepanov:

Before you move or check out a job, look to see if a church is nearby. Pray because God will guide you. Trust in Him to lead you to a community with an established church or promising mission.

If you contact HOCNA, they will tell you about their new missions. They are growing rapidly with new missions springing up in different areas of the country as more Orthodox become disenchanted with the influence of the OCL and other liberal movements. Most of their priests have jobs so they are not full time pastors. Therefore, the Bishops try to insure that each parish has at least one deacon and several subdeacons to help the priest. Their bishops are good and give excellent sermons.

My prayers for you.
Maria

[Ephraem]

Ephraem,

Maybe your veiled criticism shouldn't be so veiled? I don't know, we can all use some criticism I guess. But the writings in these two short books are generally accepted by real Orthodox Christians. Alexandre Kalomiros' reasons for isolating himself are fundementally different and arguable than that which is discussed in these books. In other words, you have a general acceptance of these books, which the Fathers of Mt Athos in the 1970's called "God inspired", whereas you don't have any such a thing with his personal misgivings towards an icon.

In addition, your veiled critism (at least thats the way I perceive it) is completley ad-hominum. If there is something wrong in these writings it would be much more credible for you to discuss this than the person who wrote it.

Dear OOD and others, forgive my veiled attack on Mr. Kalomiros. I am often too quick to criticise and lack sobriety in my comments. Indeed, I am mostly unqualified to offer criticism of Kalomiros' work even if it warranted it.

That said, while Kalomiros did leave the Greek Church to join an old-calendar church due to ecumenical issues, his joining ROCA and his subsequent expellation from ROCA were due (as far as I can tell) to other problems. It is extremely sad that a devoted son of Orthodoxy could not find a single worthy bishop in the entire world to go under and had to live out his years in ecclesiastic isolation. I think his own opinion of the Greek old-calendarists speaks for itself, and in its own way (for right or wrong) his choosing to remain outside of every Church is the frightful endgame that's possible for those who seek the Truth through super correctness. (Am I going to get flamed for saying "super correct" here?)

Thank you for calling me out on my indirect swipe, as mistaken and misguided as it was. I am trying to know and follow His commandments, and failing all the time.

[OrthodoxyOrDeath]

Ephraem,

I don't think anybody would deny that there are people who are "super correct". I guess many of us are at certain moments, but yes, there are people who carry the torch so high that it begins to overshadow "weightier" matters of Christ's law. We are all sinners. Personally I don't think I have met anyone such as this.

But exactly what does Mr. Kalomiros' personal position have to do with these writings, which have nothing to do with the word most often used to stigmatize ideas and people, that is, "super-correct"? His books are not about being "super-correct", rather they are about staying away from people who are rabidly super-incorrect (ie. heretics). You don't see anyone coming to this forum and saying that an ecumenist book is bad because its author, an ecumenist bishop with the Antiochians, was arrested for grabbing a woman’s privates do you?

So if you want to say that writing about and staying away from heretic bishops leads you to "super-correctness", then allow me to say that ecumenism leads to drunken sexual assualt.

[Ephraem]

But exactly what does Mr. Kalomiros' personal position have to do with these writings, which have nothing to do with the word most often used to stigmatize ideas and people, that is, "super-correct"?

I think I already admitted that I wrongly used Kalomiros' biography to illustrate the conundrum that can result from a super-correct mentality. It was not a good illustration, but that does not detract from the value of knowing about his life. His life history (which is what I assume you mean by "personal position") does not detract from his writings. His work stands on its own merit. If you think that I used his biography against his written works, you have mistaken me. I would like all of my Orthodox friends to read Kalomiros' works.

Every person should pursue righteousness with all their might, and if joining an old-calendar church is going make it easier for someone to become a vessel of the Holy Spirit, I'm all for it! I am concerned for all my brothers and sisters, that they make informed decisions, and to this end I thought that the biography of Mr. Kalomiros would be useful in some small way. He exercised extreme discrimination and caution, so much so that he was unable to put himself under any bishop at the end of his life. I pray for all of us here on this forum, for all of us to be guided in wisdom, and that we do all we can to preserve Orthodoxy perfectly, whatever it takes. In the end, every one answers to God for himself.

[OrthodoxyOrDeath]

Ephraem,

Well said. I just don't like the word "super correct"; it seems it is to often a misused term, and that is primarily because what is "super-correct" is relative.

For me, "super correct" is at a pharisitical level; struggling for the faith is something else entirely and often misinterpreted.

[joasia]

Well said. I just don't like the word "super correct"; it seems it is to often a misused term, and that is primarily because what is "super-correct" is relative.

Try to explain that to the Greek old calendarists in my area. A person can convert to Orthodoxy and denounce all their previous religious associations, but they will always be considered a xenos/xenia to the Greeks, and God forbid that they would try to marry one of their children(mixed blood, of course). They lack compassion. They point fingers. They think that they are absolutely correct in their view of how people should behave, but they don't realize that their behaviour is going against God's teachings of love. And the monk priest, is so ignorant to compassion. He will condemn a women to hell for just having feelings towards a man. But, a man can commit adultery and he will be excused with a slap on the hand because the woman caused the temptation.

I hope the Greeks in your area are alot more compassionate.

[Maria]

Well said. I just don't like the word "super correct"; it seems it is to often a misused term, and that is primarily because what is "super-correct" is relative.

Try to explain that to the Greek old calendarists in my area. A person can convert to Orthodoxy and denounce all their previous religious associations, but they will always be considered a xenos/xenia to the Greeks, and God forbid that they would try to marry one of their children(mixed blood, of course). They lack compassion. They point fingers. They think that they are absolutely correct in their view of how people should behave, but they don't realize that their behaviour is going against God's teachings of love. And the monk priest, is so ignorant to compassion. He will condemn a women to hell for just having feelings towards a man. But, a man can commit adultery and he will be excused with a slap on the hand because the woman caused the temptation.

I hope the Greeks in your area are alot more compassionate.

Dear Joasia:

I've encountered that same "not my daughter" attitude in some Greek Orthodox (GOA) and Antiochian FOB (Fresh Off the Boat) parishes. Interracial couples where I live are encouraged to go to the OCA where they are more open to mixed blood. So it's not just the Old Greek Calendarists, it is just plain parochialism, and you can find it anywhere, especially in wealthy families. That's life ... it's called protecting your interests. Would Christ approve .. I don't think so.

Did you see My Big Fat Greek Wedding? There you go and they were not very religious but just cultural Greeks.

:ohvey:

In Christ-God,
Maria