You say tomato and I say tomauto. A heretic by any other name still smells the same.
paul
Which Patriarchs worse?
Katya,
Greetings,
Orthodox doctrine, true faith, makes a synod canonical. Judgment is not wrong. We are not judging unto condemnation. Anyone can repent. Anyone!
How can we keep ourselves, our family and friends, our fellow brothers and sisters in Christ, indeed the Orthodox Church safe from heresy, inturn, from loosing our salvation if we do not make good jugements with concerns to our faith? Why do we leave one bishop [synod, jurisdiction] to follow another?
We know heresy because we know what the Church, [the Holy Fathers, Scriptures and Canons] teach us concerning it, and apostasy, and schism. Without knowing how to judge rightly and to see false teachings and alterations of the unchangeable faith we in turn will loose our faith.
So, please, take into consideration the fact that these are not personally formed opinions but have already been stated by the Fathers with more eloquent words.
Saint Ignatius of Antioch to the Ephesians , 16:
"If, then, those are dead who do these things according to the passions, how much worse if, with bad doctrine, one should corrupt the faith of God for which Jesus Christ was crucified. Such a man, for becoming contaminated, will depart into unquenchable fire; and so will any one who listens to him."
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joasia
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Paul,
You have a very judgemental concept about what is right or wrong in God's eyes. Your words express the mentality of someone who lacks compassion. Yes, we have to know what's right by God and yes there are the examples of writings by the saints about sinful actions and heresy...but, if God did not accept our sinful state, He would never have suffered on the Cross for us and He would never have given us the opportunity for cleansing by Holy Confession and Holy Communion. The fact that these are present in our liturgy means that God has compassion and gives us an opportunity to come clean. This applies to anyone who is still living in the flesh, that includes NON-ORTHODOX. So why do you persist in your puritan mentality? And I thought I was strict about do's and don'ts, but you take the cake.
St. Cyprian who was a devil-worshipper, a servant of satan was brought to God, despite his close connection to satan. Cyprian commanded the demons!! And don't forget Apostle Paul( a former Jew), whose name you took, who murdered Christians. He was given a chance by Christ....how can you miss these examples?
Here's a passage that shows God's compassion. I know you will combat it with a passage that shows His judgement...point being, it's HIS judgement.
Now it happened, as Jesus sat at the table in the house, that behold, many tax collectors and sinners came and sat down with Him, and His disciples. And when the Pharisees saw it, they said to His disciples," Why does your Teacher eat with tax collectors and sinners?" When Jesus heard that, He said to them, "Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. But go and learn what this means: 'I desire mercy and not sacrifice.' For I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance. (Matthew: 9:10-13)
Go and learn what this means.
Here's a question for you..if a herectic was drowning and you could save him, would you let him drown anyways because he's a heretic?
There is also that little story in the gospels about the adulteress who they all wanted to stone, but Jesus said to them "Let he who is without sin be the first one to cast a stone," (Please excuse my paraphrasing here, but it was words to that effect). None of us are in any position to judge, or condemn anyone else at all. We are all of us sinners. Concentrate on your own sins before looking for the sins of others.
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joasia
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You do not know the difference between bad conduct as a sin and bad theology as a sin.
Yes I do. Bad conduct of theology is still a SIN. It is due to mankind's rejection of God's truth. A sin can be a sin on it's own. But, bad theology is still due to a sin. And God gives everyone a chance to repent from their sins of dilusion, whether personal or theological. They have that chance until their death.
How can we keep ourselves, our family and friends, our fellow brothers and sisters in Christ, indeed the Orthodox Church safe from heresy, inturn, from loosing our salvation if we do not make good jugements with concerns to our faith?
I agree. I have made many such statements.
I wish there was an eutopian Orthodox Church where I would see everything done right and hear everyone speak with true Orthodox dogmatic comments. And see all the canons of the Seven Ecumenical Councils upheld.
The Greek history has shown that there have always been turmoils in the church. Is there a synod that meets the eutopian criteria? .