Help With Patristic Quote?

Justin Kissel · Post by **Justin Kissel** » Sun 30 January 2005 2:29 am

We need to read this stuff in context.

Hence the reason I asked if anyone knew what quote I was thinking of. But if context is important, why speculate before you've seen it? This is my fault for bringing it up again.

Anastasios · Post by **Anastasios** » Mon 31 January 2005 1:15 am

Justin Kissel wrote:
We need to read this stuff in context.

Hence the reason I asked if anyone knew what quote I was thinking of. But if context is important, why speculate before you've seen it? This is my fault for bringing it up again.

My friend, don't be so hard on yourself. This is a discussion forum, not a thesis. We have to hash this stuff out. The assumption when we post here is we don't know everything. We need to have conversations with others. We will change our minds. Don't be embarassed by that.

Anastasios

OrthodoxyOrDeath · Post by **OrthodoxyOrDeath** » Mon 31 January 2005 5:55 am

But if you are really ignorant (some might say BLISSFULLY ignorant) of church politics and divisions, and you live in a time when the teachings have not been hammerd out officially yet, I have serious doubts God would condemn you.

That may or may not be true, I hope it is b/c I have loved ones (as I'm sure everyone does) who fall into this category.

But we may be thinking of this to simplisticly. I very must don't think this is a case of Christ judging a person he was to much of a simpleton to find His church in this sea of "churches". Christ's Church is important insofar as only it offers the kind of spiritual healing we need to enter into the kingdom of heaven. Heirotheos of Nafpaktos says it well enough, I just don't have the time right now.

Justin Kissel · Post by **Justin Kissel** » Mon 31 January 2005 1:57 pm

Anastasios,

My friend, don't be so hard on yourself. This is a discussion forum, not a thesis. We have to hash this stuff out. The assumption when we post here is we don't know everything. We need to have conversations with others. We will change our minds. Don't be embarassed by that.

I'm not quite sure what you mean. Why would I be embarrassed? Regarding the first post, one might bring up similar statements by almost all the Church Fathers; e.g., "Not even the blood of martyrdom can wash away the sin of schism" (St. John Chrysostom). My problem in all of this is that it was because of my inquisitiveness (a sin) and shallow curiosity (a sin) that I led two of my brothers into judging the saints, and by extension the Church. Embarrassed? No. Remorseful? Definately. I never seem to learn to keep my mouth shut, no matter how many times God tells me to.

Anastasios · Post by **Anastasios** » Mon 31 January 2005 2:51 pm

well whatever term for the emotion you were feeling don't worry about it. I didn't judge the saints, I judged our interpretation of them for the most part, although it is true that the saints themselves are not individually infallible--we all make the choice not to accept what St Greogry of Nyssa said about souls for instance since it is not consonant with the other fathers in some specific areas.

As for Tom, he's always going to blow up about everything, that is not your fault!

Relax buddy!

Anastasios

OrthodoxyOrDeath · Post by **OrthodoxyOrDeath** » Mon 31 January 2005 3:26 pm

Justin,

TomS wrote:

Total absolute nonsense!!! Any "church father" who said this was not speaking with the love of Christ in his heart.

On certain feast days our church, sometimes including a bishop or two, has the traditional procession outside. Well, on one side of the church is a very busy street and I would imagine we are quite a spectacle with our vestments, hats, icons, crosses, ect to all the passer-bys. Now if they sin and judge us in some way, it is not our sin; in fact it would be a sin (in my opinion) to not do the procession.

So that someone might sin at any moment and for just about anything is not always on us and to be concerned about. I have many times second'ed guessed myself into a psychosis, but I think I have recently been learning about this, that above all things we need to be passionless. Because when we are passionless, we are automatically tolerant (and not in the way society preaches), we are sincere, and besides many other things, (as it relates to this subject) foremost in our minds is how to do things for the glory of God, and not worry what everyone else is doing and thinking. I seen this on the face of a monk several weeks ago, he was kind but not overly so, and clearly his mind was concerned with something more important. I had very strong feeling with him that he was "somewhere else" if you know what I mean.