I'm confused

[Justin Kissel]

FWIW, what my own (ROCOR) bishop has said on the matter:

"Examining the materials of the first meeting, I can say that in the course of their work, nothing 'terrible' occurred. Analysts and commentators are alarming the people of the church for no reason. At the same time, even if the members of the Committees agreed with us personally, there is still the official position of the ROC/MP, there is the Patriarch, the Synod's point of view, there are the many books and documents which have appeared recently. What the Patriarch said in his recent sermon during the memorial service to Metropolitan Sergius (Stragorodsky), during the very visit of our delegation, once again convinces me and many others that they cannot at this time 'accommodate' the rejection of the 'Declaration' of Metropolitan Sergius. The same thing can be said about ecumenism." - Interview With Bp. Gabriel

[OrthodoxyOrDeath]

What I am confused about (and perhaps Justin can ask this of Bp. Gabriel) is whether they do or do not “share the exact same ecclesiology” as the Cyprians. This was declared, but if true, it seems it would preclude any serious thought of “union” with the MP.

I suppose I am not confused as I say, as I believe the ROCORs position has been slipping toward whatever positions and ideas that take them into communion with the MP – Cyprian was almost like a “test bed” (to use tech industry slang).

It really appears to me that todays ROCOR bishops have a very casual and nonchalant way of entering into and out of communion. I mean Cyprians ecclesiology is very different than the GOC, who by the way, consider Cyprian a schismatic and a heretic. So it seems they have this attitude that the GOC is ok; the Cyprians are ok, and the MP just has a few things needing adjusting to satisfy the masses. But all of these groups are so very different and so very unlike each other, that such an idea seems incredible. Sooner (as we now see) rather than later, they will be forced to make some clear cut statements which, no matter where they land, will inevitably be a self-denial – because they were all things at one time or another.

[George Australia]

I mean Cyprians ecclesiology is very different than the GOC, who by the way, consider Cyprian a schismatic and a heretic.

These are indeed sad days when rudeness, and disunity are considered signs of allegiance to Christ.

Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil;
Who put darkness for light, and light for darkness;
Who put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!
Isaiah 5:20

[尼古拉前执事]

These are indeed sad days when rudeness, and disunity are considered signs of allegiance to Christ.

Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil;
Who put darkness for light, and light for darkness;
Who put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!
Isaiah 5:20

Would that cover the ecclesiology of "holy heretics"?

[OrthodoxyOrDeath]

George,

I certainly don't mean to be rude, especially to you; I thought I was just stating the obvious.

The reason for bringing up the fact that the GOC consider the Cyprians schismatics and heretics was to illustrate that since the ROCOR was with both groups at one time or another, they "played" both sides of a deep divide.

I would say more but this is not the correct subject for this forum index.

[George Australia]

Would that cover the ecclesiology of "holy heretics"?

Father Deacon,
I'm not sure, since we whom you call "Cyprianites" do not hold a belief in "holy heretics", since the judgement of sanctity and holiness are known to God alone Who is wonderous in His Saints. We whom you call 'Cyprianites' (and who simply call ourselves "Orthodox Christians" without a catchy acronym) do not presume to usurp this from God.
George

[George Australia]

I certainly don't mean to be rude, especially to you; I thought I was just stating the obvious.

Dear in Christ OOD,
I didn't think it was obvious until you committed these words to the internet. You didn't make it obvious until now that you considered me to be a schismatic heretic. Thank you for making your position clear.
I guess I have to wonder why I should bother to take part in a forum where the moderators consider me to be a heretic and a schismatic- something like the Assemblies of the WCC ..... doesn't that make us both ecumenists OOD?
George