I'm confused

[George Australia]

Shouldnt take too long to know and ROCOR is not a valid option if they come to unite with Moscow I take it?

Dear in Christ Petros,
My juristiction is currently in communion with ROCOR, and yes, it has said that it will suspend communion if ROCOR joins the MP without the MP renouncing ecumenism But this is not because we consider either ROCOR or the MP to be without Grace. Suspending communion is more like a 'protest'. I do not know to which juristiction you belong, but, I agree with Justin- you may very well be worrying about nothing. And if the 'worst' does happen, even then you should not worry- an undeserved excomunication carries no weight with God! If ROCOR is an alternative, then by all means I would encourage you to attend there. And stop worrying about ROCOR joining the MP in the future- none of us knows what God has in store for the future. Didn't we all think that Communism was here to stay in Russia until God worked His miracle? Above all, do not remain unchurched.
Trust in God- He will take care of you and lead you where you need to be:
"Bättre är att taga sin tillflykt till HERREN än att förlita sig på människo"(Psalm 117:8 LXX)

George

[尼古拉前执事]

And now for the Republican respose ...

As far as doing Reader's services, it all depends on the spiritual maturity of the person. I know that when I first was being catechized I, in no way, had the spiritual maturity to do Reader's services every SUnday. But as time went on I got to a point where I think if I needed to I could do Reader's Vigils and Typicas every Sunday if neccesary.

I do however agree that generally attending a church is better than staying at home. Just like the prophecy that it will get to a point where one will have to travel 3 days to find a true church. Even if one must travel for many hours, they should try to go as much as possible IMO.

As for ROCOR-L, this is no longer a matter of if, but a prestated goal that is just a matter of when, so I find it quite different than thinking it could happen as the hierarchs have already stated it will and they are working towards that goal right now.

Personally, I could not see it an option for me, but can sympathize with and respect the person that has their line at the point that the documents are signed and sealed, even if my line in the sand is well before theirs.

[OrthodoxyOrDeath]

And stop worrying about ROCOR joining the MP in the future- none of us knows what God has in store for the future.

George,

It is very easy and pleasant to put yourself at ease with a simple: "God is guiding my bishops and if this or that happens it is the Will of God." For the sober minded the question immediatley arises, why your bishops and not the founding bishops of so many heresies and schisms? No, our criteria is not found in pleasant sayings, but in tradition which is what the Church has established for all. And despite what so many people wish to say and think, it is completley discernable and accessable - you can know the truth with prayer and fasting - it is not locked up by a "chosen few".

[George Australia]

It is very easy and pleasant to put yourself at ease with a simple: "God is guiding my bishops and if this or that happens it is the Will of God."

Dear in Christ OOD,
Did I say that "God is guiding the bishops and all will be well"? If I believe this, then why am I not in communion with the EP, MP etc?
On the other hand, can we deny the possibility that the MP can repent?
Of course the Truth is accessible to all, and I believe that you and I are both saying a similar thing.
Compare:

Trust in God- He will take care of you and lead you where you need to be

And despite what so many people wish to say and think, it is completley discernable and accessable - you can know the truth with prayer and fasting

But don't be surprised if others are led somewhere else than where you have been led using this approach to the Truth OOD. I know of one seeker who prayed and fasted and became a Buddhist. One must be certain one is listening to God and not some other spirit when one uses this method. We should trust in God, and not trust in our own prayer and fasting.

George

[joasia]

But don't be surprised if others are led somewhere else than where you have been led using this approach to the Truth OOD. I know of one seeker who prayed and fasted and became a Buddhist. One must be certain one is listening to God and not some other spirit when one uses this method. We should trust in God, and not trust in our own prayer and fasting.

Prayer and fasting is a spiritual exercise, but it's the temperment of the soul that leads the way. The question is..what is the person's spiritual temperment? One leads him to Buddhism. His soul did not accept the truth of God. The other leads him to conversion to Orthodoxy, because he was so driven to believe in the True God. There is only one Truth, there are no compromises.

Deacon Nikolai wrote:

As for ROCOR-L, this is no longer a matter of if, but a prestated goal that is just a matter of when, so I find it quite different than thinking it could happen as the hierarchs have already stated it will and they are working towards that goal right now

I think that this is a completely unfair statement. And I say this with kind words. Why are you condemning before the action has never taken place? When did they state that they will join??

ROCOR will not join the MP. But, since human nature is so quick to devour the negative...that is why, there is so much talk about it. And since satan is a whisperer in men's ears and mankind is so ready to lap up everything that they hear that is negative, then they promote satan's deceptive message.

You're accusing someone of a crime that hasn't been commited. And I think that is quite un-befitting for your position.

Did Vl Laurus tell you, himself , that he will be joining or did another bishop tell you that they are going full force with this? If so then please contact me, immediately, please. Because I will investigate this right away.

But, if this is only floating gossip, then please indicate so. These are serious accusations that are not taken lightly amongst our laity. Are these your opinions or fact? If they are facts then supply the evidence. If these are speculations, then please make it clear that this is a personal statement.

[尼古拉前执事]

In the Traditional Orthodox Church section of the forum you will see much said by your bishops on this topic.It is why union talks are going on.

Metropolitan Laurus: I think that rapprochement of the Churches in Russia
and
abroad will bring spiritual benefit to the entire Russian people, since this
will free our Church from self-isolation and the schisms and divisions
unavoidably connected with it, from one side, and, from the other side, from
its dissolution into the heterodox environment.
However, into the confluence of the Church in Russia and the Russian Church
Abroad, which preserved external and internal spiritual freedom, the Russian
Church Abroad will introduce its unique strong and fresh-flowing stream.
Russia is
large, and people there relate differently to the faith and to the churches;
there is much indifference and lukewarmness, and hypocritical self-interest,
but there is also a small flock, the chosen remnant, which burn as candles
before
God with their clean, God-fearing lives. These people publish and distribute
Orthodox books and periodicals; they construct and endow churches, church
schools
are established; they go into the prisons and the hospitals, to the orphans,
the elderly, the deprived and homeless, each serving God at that place where
they are called. There are many people, sacrificial and devoted to the
Orthodox Church. And here, is where all of the invented obstacles between
the
people break down - distrust, suspiciousness, and slanders; when all people
of good will combine their efforts, then, I believe, the prophecies of Saint
Seraphim of Sarov and Saint John of Shanghai and San Francisco will come to
pass - Holy Russia will rise, at least for a short period! I think that the
reunification of the two parts of the Russian Church will accelerate the
complete and final revival of Russia; Orthodox Russia will occupy the place
assigned to it in the family of peoples, and possibly even will restore
political and moral equilibrium to the entire world.

Interview by Monk Vsevolod (Filipyev) especially for "The Russian Herald" on
16 March, 2004, In Jordanville, [NY] USA. Translated by Deacon Anthony
Bridges, Joy of All Who Sorrow Russian Orthodox Church (ROCA), Cumming, GA,
March 23, 2004 (Question numbers added for reference)

[尼古拉前执事]

This thread may have a few quotes for you too:

http://euphrosynoscafe.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1572