Is ROCiE a schism? Is Met Vitaly mentally capable to lead?

[joasia]

Deacon Nikolai wrote,

Joasia/Joanna, people have complained that you do the same thing jumping on people and attacking without knowing them or what they are talking about (their experiences), so I hope your feeling attacked here will cause you to do some introspection and redouble your own efforts not to do this to others.

I deserved that. I HAVE realized that and that is why I made the comment. I have been very apologetic for the passed 3 months. If you recall my passed posts...I have made formal apologizes. Although, this is a chatboard, I have been very open about who I am and where I live. I don't hide behind fake names. So, I think I have exposed myself enough to be responsible for my responses. I admit my error and ask for forgiveness. And I know that God is always watching.

Katina wrote:

Obviously he doesn't have all the mental ability as he did years ago, not many people near 95 years old do.

That is so true. He can still be very witty and sharp.

and it is in these questions that the Laurus group has spread falsehoods.

As I've expressed, in the past...I have great doubts on how the hierarchy are running things(to put it bluntly). Everything seems so messed up. And I'm not talking about Vl. Vitaly. I'm talking about all these clergy(bishops) who are making decisions about the church(ROCOR) without consulting and informing the laity.

Please forgive me if you felt that I was attacking you. It was not my intention.

I just feel very sad about the whole state of affairs with the divisions. Please forgive me for being so abrasive.

Joshua Fraese wrote:

I had no intention of attacking anyone. I apologize if I came across that way; I engage in a lot of blunt debate daily in my academic work and understand that sometimes I come across pretty rough. The reason I originally responded was I felt ROCiE being called a schism and me being called fanatical and metropolitan Vitaly being called amnesiac was all a bit much, but perhaps I read too much into the language you were using. I'll leave off posting here for a bit - too much work to do at the moment.

I apologize too. Some posters have a way of expressing their views with such eloquence. They respond to others, but express themselves without offending them. I have to learn that method.

[Liudmilla]

Forgive me, but as I understood it, Mit. Vitaly's problem was not mere elderly "forgetfulness" but rather the more serious illness of Altzheimers. If this is the case, then I get the feeling that many of you have no first hand knowledge of this desease and what it can look like.

Frequently a person suffering from this can be very coherent and even recognize people and seem very "normal". Yet, an hour later the sufferer will not remember anything or anyone at all. The episodes of "normalcy" decreases with time. If you are not around such a person at all times these periods are not apparent. It is often the severe point of contention between the care-givers and the "visitors" and frequently gives birth to accusations and abuse. Medication will delay the effects of this desease but ultimately nothing helps.

It is a horrible way to end one's life. The effect on famly, care-giver's, and friends is awful. (As an example: My Kuma's mother was accused by her infrequently visiting son of starving her husband to death.)

I often think about not Mit Vitaly, but the men and women around him who took the actions they did and their Justifications. Knowing what I do of the desease I have to wonder about their justifications (and I mean people from both sides of the fence.) I wonder how I would answer to God in the same situation..... and I begin to cry.

Milla

[ania]

Ok, I'm probably going to be jumped on for this...
I don't know if he has Alzhimers or not, or what his mental faculties are at the moment.
All I can say is that about a year before the split, my dad, who had at that time been a cleryman for over 25 years, who had served at the synod many many times, and had served with Met. Vitaly on numerous occasions throughout the years at different locations and was a rather visible part of each service (he was a deacon, he's been a priest for 3 years now), once was visiting the synod.
Met. Vitaly walked by him, and asked, "And who are you?"
My dad, rather taken aback, told him his name.
Met. Vitaly asked, "and your a priest where?"
My dad: "I'm a protodeacon in Jordanville."
Met. Vitaly, "I've been there, it's rather nice."
My father was extremely shocked, considering Met. Vitaly had had a distinct dislike for him for years upon years.
Many other people who have worked and/or lived at the synod on 93rd St. had similar incounters with Met. Vitaly before the end.