The "Non-Chalcedonians"

[OrthodoxyOrDeath]

Anastasios,

I would very much like to have your attention with regard to the Monophysite union as it must be a very important subject for you.

I understand you have access to the cascading ideas of the very best minds on Eastern theology at the OCA. Since they are very strong supporters of union, I wonder if you could help channel some of their thoughts on the following points regarding the agreements they subscribe to.

The recent joint declarations, which they MUST consider superior to the Fourth Ecumenical Synod, show us the entire framework and agreement they have supposedly concluded is a sensational correction of centuries of "misunderstandings". One would expect these documents to be very deep and confusing, using elusive terms, brain-twisting ideas; much more so than the thoughts of the Orthodox Saints and Holy Fathers who, even though they were not as "smart" as the OCA, forwarded thoughts on Orthodox theology that have me groping for the hole in which my lobotomy must have been administered. A bare minimum quality of these new declarations must be at least be that they clear the "confusion", no?

So lets have a look shall we?

With regard to the Second Declaration of 1990...

1. Paragraph III: could be thought of as Christ being from two natures and not of two natures. Not very clear is it.

2. Paragraph IV: there is a confession of hypostatic union, but there is no clarification of its characteristics, that is, that the Hypostasis of God the Word is also the Hypostasis of the assumed flesh.

3. Paragraphs III and IV above, there is a confession of two wills and energies, but Monoenergism is not condemned.

4. Paragraph V: we see a confession that Christ willed and acted in the one Hypostasis, something we always agreed on, but there was no confession that "each nature in common with the other both wills and acts in its own way" - something which would prove they are not Monophysites but conveniently skipped.

5. Paragraph VI: the interpretations of the Synods that do not agree with the "Horos" and the "Agreements" are rejected, but the synods are not specified. On the basis of this paragraph, which synods would the Monophysites reject and which ones the Orthodox?

6. Paragraph VII: the Monophysites use the expression "one Incarnate Nature of God the Word" in which "one nature" clearly means "one hypostasis", again, something we always agreed on --- BUT, at the same time, in the first declaration, they also preserve the clause "one united Theanthropic nature in Christ". The ancient Monophysites would be envious of such a formula, and more disturbing, the Monophysites could say they remained firm in their Monophysitism. And the Icons of St. Photius would cry.

7. Paragraph VIII: The Monophysites accept as a matter of interpretation the Orthodoxy of the teaching of the Synods subsequent to the Third.

So were is the firm faith of the Holy Fathers wrong? Where has anything been cleared up in this document which shows our honorable and Orthodox Synod of Chalcedon to be the work of Satan? I only see a rather simple and short document that skips past all of the major issues and offers nothing in terms of the hoped for "clarification" of the hard issues.

If you cannot reconcile this, then that could only mean that you are striving to be part of a group that is in communion with that which Christ has cut-off from the Church, and that should scare the daylights out of you.

For your own sake, please let us know what your teachers say...

[Logos]

As layman who does not quite understand all the specific theological and dogmatic points, I have a simple question. Why the rush to embrace so quickly? What has changed all of the sudden within the last century that instead of the monophysites being heretics, now it is misunderstanding? I realize communication has advanced, but I am concerned that theologians, aka academics, are drawing up the these agreements and not any monks or people who are well known in the faith for being holy and pious. Why the rush to embrace? I am concerned that the WCC is influencing Orthodoxy instead of us influencing it. The era we live in is full of moral relativism which says that I am okay, you are okay. I say we leave that dead organization that only corrupts our faith. But I would like to know why all of the sudden unity has become of such importance to our theologians and Bishops. Why not instead deal with the jurisdictional mess in America? Clearly, that is more important.

[Julianna]

I've always respected your Church and think you are Orthodox. Juliana's Church, however, is run by a deposed bishop who later was convicted of molesting a child so I can't consider that in any way Orthodox. And Juliana, I'm aware of Mr. Valentine's attempts to defend himself from the charges on his website but he just makes himself look like a fool and more guilty.

anastasios, did you know that the charges have been dropped? Did you know they were brought up by the Moscow Patriarchate? Did you know that the so-called victims recanted?

How can a non-Orthodox judge who is or is not Orthodox?

What "Orthodox Church" are you going to join?

[Anastasios]

Dear OOD:

I read your post and I am thinking about it. I just don't feel I am that qualified to answer it. However, I might give it a shot this weekend. If not, I will give you some references instead that might answer your question.

Dear Juliana:

Since I promised to stop attacking your Church, I will not comment on the conspiracy theory assumptions that are evident in your post (i.e. that the MP trumped up the charges). I will say that I will in the spirit of Christian charity research this issue further.

As for what Church I will join, that is up in the air. I like the Greek Archdiocese, and I like the Greek Old Calendarists in union with Constantinople. The Jerusalem Patriarchate interests me. The Carpatho-Rusyn diocese is closest to my Byz. Cath. roots. I am praying for discernment.

anastasios

[Nektarios14]

I like the Greek Old Calendarists in union with Constantinople

Anastasios, I've never heard of this group could you give a little information and/or links about them. The idea seems interesting to me.

Thanks,
Nektarios

[Anastasios]

Dear Nektarios:

http://www.stirene.orgshould give you the information you need; also check out http://www.goarch.org/en/otherpatriarchal/sta.asp

In Christ,

anastasios

[Nektarios14]

Euharisto Anastasio. (hopefully I won't get in trouble for speaking Greek on a Russian board ) They seem like an interesting group.