Relics

[Apologist]

So you are saying that this is true ONLY for those who have no knowledge of the God-Man?

Do you believe it would be possible that this statement could apply to someone like Ghandi or a Buddhist Monk who lives his life similar to the teachings of Christ?

I'm talking about people who hadn't the luck to become baptised members of the Orthodox Church, not about APOSTATES that throw away the Holy Spirit that they have acquired!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Read this carefully:

"For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame." (Hebrews 6:4-6)

[Joshua F]

Of course, if the GOA has lost the grace of God, Tom may not be so far wrong...

[Liudmilla]

Tom:

Don't jerk the chain too much else Apologist may become unraveled!

Maybe I'm wrong but I frequently sense a rather tongue in cheek approach from Tom in many of his posts. A sort of "devil's advocate"???

I get the feeling he is enjoying himself tremendously when he can get a really juicy conversation going.....

Oh welll.....I enjoy them anyway and have also learned alot.

The emphasized yelling I can do without but otherwise, Keep it up!

Milla

[TomS]

Tom:

Don't jerk the cain too much else Apologist may become unraveled! .......

Not this time, Milla. This is a serious question to me and I don't understand why there is a debate about it.

If there is salvation outside of Faith in Christ then our religion becomes just one of many in which a saving relationship with God can be obtained. And then who are WE to say that our Church holds the Truth?

[Apologist]

No, no, no. Jesus just saves some non-Christians as EXCEPTIONS! Of course, Jesus is the one who saves them, not Buddha or Mohammed or Sai Baba or the Aliens or the statues of Baal!!!! ALL THOSE PEOPLE ARE FALSE PROPHETS.

"Jesus said unto him, I AM THE WAY, THE TRUTH, AND THE LIFE: NO MAN COMES UNTO THE FATHER, BUT BY ME." (John 14:6)

It is totally absurd to say that "Jesus was a wise teacher, but not God Himself". Not only from a Christian perspective! Because if Jesus wasn't God, He was a crazy liar. Pick one or the other! If I come out and say that I'm really a divine alien and I create my own religion, will I automatically also "hold the truth"? Just think about it!

THERE IS NO SALVATION WITHOUT JESUS CHRIST!

[TomS]

Thanks for responding Apologist.

I have some comments below and a further question. However, I do not expect an answer to my question because we just don't know. And not knowing is a problem for me.

No, no, no. Jesus just saves some non-Christians as EXCEPTIONS! Of course, Jesus is the one who saves them, not Buddha or Mohammed or Sai Baba or the Aliens or the statues of Baal!!!! ALL THOSE PEOPLE ARE FALSE PROPHETS.

Agreed. But that brings up another serious problem -- how can Jesus make an exception for someone who KNOWS about Him, yet still rejects Him as the Son of God? How can this be fair? Does every good person at their time of death get a vision of Christ and then a choice to accept Him? And if so, what about the people that that person deceived and led down a path away from Christ? How is that fair to the people he/she led astray?

THERE IS NO SALVATION WITHOUT JESUS C

We agree.

[George Australia]

[
Good. So I no longer have to believe that Jesus Christ was the Son of God. Just that he was a Son of God. What is important is that I live by his teachings. That will save me.

Tom,
This may have once been true, but since the Incarnation, this would be a foolish tact to follow.
in a little while, we will celebrate the Nativity- and we will chant:

"Thy Nativity, O Christ our God
Has shown to the world the Light of Knowledge
For there by, those who worshipped the stars
were taught by a star to adore Thee, the Sun of Righteousness
and to know Thee, the Orient from on High,
O Lord, Glory to Thee."
and

"...and we who walked in darkness and shadows
have found the Truth,
for the Lord is born of a Virgin!"

If we have seen the Great Light and have been shown the Truth, we have no excuse for returning to the darkness and ignorance, as a dog returns to it's vomit.
It would be belter had we never heard the Gospel than to hear it and not obey it.
Those who have never heard the Gospel but live righteously will be shown more mercy than those who heard it and did not obey it.