Racial Pride/Tribalism and Orthodoxy. Are they compatable?

Esther · Post by **Esther** » Sat 11 December 2004 5:41 pm

By the way, I have no idea what you mean about "NS". You seem to be accusing me about something and yet YOU DO NOT KNOW ME and I don't have an ioda of an idea what NS means. Does it mean, Nova Scotia or new style? How would you know who my friends are? Don't bear false witness against your neighbor. You made a low blow.

It was a low blow, and an intentional one. I meant it tongue-in-cheek. NS, short for National Socialist. Let's just say that your type aren't exactly known for being discriminating about the sources of your "knowledge".

Did I say that Esther is the cause of the Russian Revolution? Excuse me. How old are you? Were you there? I wasn't talking about you, but you said you are tired of being blamed for communism. I didn't say Esther is the cause of communism, did I? Jews seem to take it on a grander scale, like they are being blamed for something that happened in 1917, when we are only talking about an event that happened with certain people, where you were not involved. When a jew says: I'm tired of being blamed for communism, then the response would be...I wasn't blaming you.

Then why do you pick out the fact that a lot of the communists were Jewish to harp on? There are a thousand demographic statistics about the communists that you left unstated. Why pick this one to bring up? I didn't mean you were blaming me personally; I meant you were blaming my people.

Well, this one you need to explain to the rest of us unworthy Orthodox Christians.

One simple word will do when it comes to the Russian Jews: pogroms. Christians worthy of the name do not engage in pogroms.

Ya. Really reliable source...the press.

"Press" means publishing house, as in "St. Vladimir's Seminary Press", or "Oxford University Press". Besides, those were simple historical facts. If you don't like the source, check any biography of Marx.

First, don't use that type of expression here.

Don't give me reason to.

Second, that IS the MAIN point of it. Who are you trying to kid, sister? It is full of hate and lies about Christians.

It has a lot of anti-Christian stuff in it, but it's not a polemic. It's a mystical text.

Ya, it's a "rough" translation, but the use of it was very SPECIFIC. The non-jews were considered cattled. That's how they use the term now. Don't try to create lies here.

Quote from the Talmud, "A Gentile who observes the Torah is as good as a high priest." The Jews have their supremacists, just as every other ethnicity does. That doesn't make it official religious teaching.

You still didn't answer my question: HOW DO YOU FEEL ABOUT JESUS CHRIST OUR SAVIOUR? You either believe that He is the Messiah or you don't.

I did answer your question. I'm an Orthodox Christian. I believe in the New Testament and the seven ecumenical councils. That should explain things nicely.

By the way...what's your CHRISTIAN name? The chatroom has talked about unique Christian names, but Esther is a definite Jewish name. When were you baptised and what name were you given?

My Christian name drumroll...is Esther. The figures of the Old Testament belong to the Christians just as much as to the Jews. I was baptized two years ago.

You must be an anomaly to your jewish family. So what's your story??

My family's not very religious, so it didn't make a lot of waves. Sts. Irenaeus and Justin Martyr played a big part in convincing me to make the leap, particularly Irenaeus' Demonstration of the Apostolic Preaching.

I'm not here to argue, although you sound like the kind of person that looks forward to arguements.

Now you're playing coy. You can't make negative and slanted statements about an entire people group and not expect a response. I'm not the only one who was offended. And no, I don't look forward to arguments, but you've deeply offended me.

Esther · Post by **Esther** » Sat 11 December 2004 6:07 pm

There are plenty of books discussing it.

I'd like some references, please. Every source I've seen has said he was the son of a Christian nobleman. Perhaps his mother was Jewish or something; I don't know.

Trotsky's real last name was Bronstein and Stalin's was Jossip Vissarionovich Djugashvili. He may have gone to church, but it doesn't prove that he was Orthodox.

The fact that he was a communicant and was accepted into the seminary proves that he was at least nominally Orthodox; in any case he wasn't a Jew.

So the OFFICIAL story is told.

Spare us the conspiracy theories unless you're going to provide documentation and evidence.

There is a very revealing book called the Scorpion. It's very difficult to find, but it will show you alot about what REALLY happened in Russia.

Oh goodie. A single book that's "very difficult to find" (perhaps because no academic institution will touch it?) and tells you the "real story" that's being covered up by a universal conspiracy of pencil-necked university professors...Let's just say I'll need just a trifle bit more than your word to believe it.

Simple. The Tsar was blind to their true nature.

And that's why he and other tsars had been turning a blind eye to pogroms for centuries

The Communists didn't want to BEFRIEND the Orthodox, they wanted to destroy them, which they did a good job at. The first ones to be killed were those who saw what they were planning.

And they also wanted to destroy the religious Jews. Following Marx, the communists had a distaste for all religon. As other people here have pointed out, there was a torrent of Jewish emigration as a result of communism.

[/i]

romiosini · Post by **romiosini** » Sat 11 December 2004 7:31 pm

Esther wrote:
Trotsky's real last name was Bronstein and Stalin's was Jossip Vissarionovich Djugashvili. He may have gone to church, but it doesn't prove that he was Orthodox.
The fact that he was a communicant and was accepted into the seminary proves that he was at least nominally Orthodox; in any case he wasn't a Jew.

Well, let me correct something here. Though, I am no anti-Jew, I am neither for Jews politicly speaking. Of course, the Jewish nation has suffered due to many mistakes that happeend in the past, which is quite human in human nature. Of course, I have not studied well the Russian Revolution, but let me remind everyone that <Saint> (let me remind everyone that he has been glorified a Saint) Tsar Nicholas the 2nd was very religious and also very Jewish friendly. Knowing all the Russian History and it's difficult friednliness with other non-orthodox nations, Blessed Nicholas has even visited Jerusalem. And has also allowed religious freedom to Jews in his Empire too.

But regarding Stalin, our dear Stalin...(with Irony of course), he came from a Georgian Family with Russian Affiliation. He of course, was raised by a very religious Orthodox mother, but at the same time beaten by a dreadful drunk atheist father. As it was said, he even attempted to enter a Seminary. But there is proof of his apostasy to Orthodoxy, once he came into power and started destroying every Orthodox Treasure Russia had. The place where Grand Duke Sergius Alexandrovitch the Late husband of Saint Elizabeth the Grand Duchess of humble memory died, Saint Elizabeth (his wife) has raised a cross at the place of his murder and had it a monument remembering his faith and love for Russia. Why am I saying this? Well Stalin himself ordered that Cross to be destroyed and thrown down, declaring this words: The Cross has fell, Jesus has Died, the Saints are dead, and the Orthodox Church is dead!
Now how is nominally Orthodox? When he has apostasized against Orthodoxy? He is technicly a heretic, God forgive me for saying, but even a servant of the Devil too. Of course, Stalin was an anti-semitist so his issues with Jews was a National problem not a Religious one. But yet again, there were Jews that were Christian Orthodox in Russia, such as Saint Father Alexander Men the New Martyr who died in 1992, who was baptizing Jews in the Faith and was murder by the Secret Police.(KGB)

gphadraig · Post by **gphadraig** » Sat 11 December 2004 8:35 pm

This thread has become quite unedifying, with posters responding to each other and making points which seem far from that love we are commanded to have for one another.

Metropolitan Antony Khrapovitsky wrote a piece on the issue raised in this thread, when Metropolitan of Kiev. He points out that many of those involved in the dreadful revolution were Christians, and was clearly unsympathetic to marked tendency of some to scapegoat their Jewish neighbours. Given that he was to be later seen as an arch- conservative and Tsarist, his comments may be considered ironic given some of the posts here.

Other spiritual Orthodox strugglers and writers have commented that the events of the revolution were brought about because of the sin of Russians. (By that they were referring to Orthodox Christian Russians and not Jews). Just as during the Old Covenant the Hebrew people were chastised, and later the Eastern Roman Empire with its fall in 1453.

The dictator "Stalin" had been an Orthodox seminarian in Georgia, at the time part of the Russian Empire.

The events of the 1914-1918 war were to change all of Europe and many of the old regimes were reduced consequently including the Austro-Hungarian dual monarchy and the Germany,

A spirit of rebellion against authority had been prevalent among many since the so-called Enlightment. A rebellion against God, monarchy and religion.

For me a bitter irony is that Imperial Russia was a net exporter of wheat and not an importer of wheat or chummy chickens, the ruble in 1905 was a prized currency and not worthless Soviet toy money, their attempt to regulate labour conditions upset Prussian and British business because it might erode their ability to exploit poor working folk, and literacy was higher than in many of supposedly more enlightened western European countries. Sadly there was a sickness and it cannot and must not be blamed a small scapegoat few. Saint John of Kronstadt saw this sickness and spoke against it, he foresaw the troubles ahead too.

Like a friend of mine I know of three old Russian ladies who regularly attend a traditionalist monastery for the services. They stand there motionless and pious for hours. Three babushkas, Christian Russians. Well actually one Christian and two Jews. I know two of traditionalist monasteries today who receive and have recieved support and help in their activities, health care of the communities and development of the monastery buildings by people who are Jews. I also know of others who would oppose any or all religious expression, many to my knowledge from Christian backgrounds. These, as the late Alexander Kalomiros wrote, having come to hate the God of the Christians. The God they had presented to them by first the Pope, and all his children. Protestant, agnostic, atheist and the like.

To blame the Jews is allow others, perhaps even ourselves, to escape any responsibility. To scapegoat.........

Ebor · Post by **Ebor** » Sat 11 December 2004 9:13 pm

To blame the Jews is allow others, perhaps even ourselves, to escape any responsibility. To scapegoat.........

I'd say that such action doesn't just allow others/ourselves to escape responsbility. It is done in a effort to ensure that others/ourselves avoid any blame. I hardly think that it is somehow a force of conspiracies or being P.C. to say "I/my group did evil things." Is that not the way to repentance?

One of my personal maxims is "Three of the hardest sentences for a Human to say: "I don't know." "I was wrong." I am sorry" " Bit generally speaking people don't like to be wrong. They don't like to admit guilt. (confession isn't easy). And having someone else to blame is so much easier. And particularly when there are blankets of falsehoods and conspiracy theories and rotten history to support it. Ah, and let's not forget "It was all their fault. They caused it to happen to themselves."

Ebor

gphadraig · Post by **gphadraig** » Sat 11 December 2004 9:23 pm

Sadly those who prefer to scapegoat these, and they may be Jews today and folks of colour tomorrow, will remain wedded to their phantasies. If only they didn't want the rest of us to join with them..............

Ebor · Post by **Ebor** » Sat 11 December 2004 9:30 pm

joasia wrote:
Esther,

Ya. Really reliable source...the press.

Washington Square Press from all I can tell is a respected publishing house in New York. One wonders if anything that disagrees with your viewpoint is therefore counted as "unreliable".

By the way...what's your CHRISTIAN name? The chatroom has talked about unique Christian names, but Esther is a definite Jewish name.

Indeed... A "Jewish name" like: David and Jonathon and Isaac and Jacob and Jeremiah and Joanna and Miriam/Mary and Joshua/Jesus. I've known several Christian women (albeit non-EO) who were/are named Esther. And of course, it's in the Bible... a whole book in fact.

Ebor