Relics

[TomS]

Not to but in here between you to but I think Aristokes answered your question before when he said:

.
The Church does not state DOGMATICALLY about Salvation ONLY within the confines of Orthodoxy (we leave that for the RC's), but that we are certain that the path to Salvation does exist in the Fullness of Orthodoxy. Outside that, we don't know.

Nicholas (Savva)

Is their salvation outside of Jesus Christ?

If the Orthodox say "we don't know" -- then they are saying that there is a possibility that there IS. And if they say THAT, then why be a Christian?

Was Christ lying when he said "No one comes to the Father but by Me"?
Are there other ways?

[OrthodoxyOrDeath]

Nobody comes to the Father except by the Son. And nobody comes to the Son except by the (Orthodox) Church. Nothing more needs to be said, contemplated, or deduced. "Let the dead bury the dead".

[Aristokles]

Is their salvation outside of Jesus Christ?

If the Orthodox say "we don't know" -- then they are saying that there is a possibility that there IS. And if they say THAT, then why be a Christian?

The above is one of the most illogically false syllogisms I have ever read. Everything that follows your "then" above does NOT follow, nor does it even allow the "possibility". That is YOUR take; and a bad one at that.
What about "we don't know" do you not understand? Is English your first language? Do you even know English? You certainly have no training in basic logic. But you do enjoy reading the junk you post yourself.

Was Christ lying when he said "No one comes to the Father but by Me"?
Are there other ways?

No. He was not.
Outside the Church , where you are, I can't imagine being.
The Church warns us about treating with the likes of your heretical statements.
Over at the other forum today you posited that the EP should quit complaining, accept "reality" and just leave the Phanar.
Why don't you take your own advice and admit your Orthodox Faith, if any, is weak or none-existent?

{I feel as if I'm dealing with a four-year old.}

Demetri

[George Australia]

Is their salvation outside of Jesus Christ?

If the Orthodox say "we don't know" -- then they are saying that there is a possibility that there IS. And if they say THAT, then why be a Christian?

What kind of logic is this Tom?
Here is the dialogue so far:

Q:Does "X" exist?
A:I don't know.
Q: So there is a possibility that "X" exists?
A: I don't know.
Q: Are you saying that "X" exists?
A: I don't know.
Q: But if "X" exists then "Y" doesn't exist does it?
A: But I don't know that "X" exists, I only know that "Y" exists, and the existence of "X" would not negate the truth of "Y".
Q: Well then, are both "X" and "Y" true?
A: I don't know.

You seem to be looking for an excuse to apostasize, Tom.
Not all roads lead to Heaven. I know that some definitely do not, and I know of only One road that definitely does- why would you gamble your immortal soul on a "possibility" of salvation when your Saviour has shown you the sure path to it?

[TomS]

Can anyone cite any statemdnts by the Holy Fathers where any one has said that salvation MAY reside outside of the Holy Orthodox Church?

It is amazing how you can take a very straightforward statement by the Church stating that "we don't know if salvation resides outside of the Church" and rationalize it to say that it is OK.

I simply cannot envision such a "middle of the road", "fence sitting" statement such as this coming from a Saint or Martyr.

Nobody comes to the Father except by the Son. And nobody comes to the Son except by the (Orthodox) Church. Nothing more needs to be said, contemplated, or deduced. "Let the dead bury the dead".

That is EXACTLY the correct answer!

[savva26]

Can anyone cite any statemdnts by the Holy Fathers where any one has said that salvation MAY reside outside of the Holy Orthodox Church?

"When all the people in Babylon were worshipping the golden idol, the Three Holy Youths did not condemn anyone to hell. They did not concern themselves with what others were doing, but took care only for themselves, so as not to fall away from true piety. God forbid that I should condemn anyone, or say that I alone am being saved. However, I would sooner agree to die than, having fallen away in any way from the right faith, endure the torments of my conscience."

Maximus the Confessor

[TomS]

Well, I have to admit, that is pretty darn close. But I see him as speaking more from a personal frame of reference (i.e., not judging the action of those specific people) and not taking ones own salvation as complete.

I am looking for something specifically from a Father stating that he/the Church believes that salvation could/may come from someone/something else other than faith in Jesus Christ.

Because, as OOD pointed out, Christ said "No one comes to the Father but by Me" and not "I am one of the ways to come to the Father"