Deacon Nikolai wrote:TomS wrote:I am saying that if it is God's plan that something is going to happen, then it will happen.
But salvation is something that is going to happen or not happen, no?
Do you think one can be saved by prayer?
Salvation is only going to happen if you utilize your free will and ask for it. One can be saved (as in salvation) by prayer. I think the difference is that you are not asking God to change something here on earth, but to change your soul.
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They say that I am bad news. They say "Stay Away."
Deacon Nikolai wrote:And if you pray for something to happen on this earth that helps lead you to salvation, He can do that to.
What would you need to change in your EXTERNAL life for salvation? Salvation is there for the asking. It's initially internal; then your outward actions should reflect your salvation.
We are getting into semantics here.
"God helps those who help themselves" You cannot JUST pray for something and expect it to happen. You have to back it up with action. And those actions along with your faith CAN help change things.
But if it God's plan that you die of a heart attack tonight in your sleep, no amount of praying to wake up every morning will change that.
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They say that I am bad news. They say "Stay Away."
TomS,
The Orthodox believe that Jesus the Son will listen to His mother (and His saints); It is therefore most helpful to pray to Panagia and ask her for her Son’s mercy. This by itself is working for your salvation.
It is when we think we can save ourselves by our actions and our actions alone without the help of God that we will certainly fail. And we ask for His help and His saints to work on our behalf primarily because we know this.
My wife lost the keys to the car once at church and she looked everywhere for them. She was feeling very bad since we live a good distance away so she lit a can to St. Pharnourios and as soon as she walked down from the church she found them. I would sure hate to live in the dry spiritless world that believes this was a coincidence and not the help of a Saint.
OrthodoxyOrDeath wrote:TomS,
The Orthodox believe that Jesus the Son will listen to His mother (and His saints); It is therefore most helpful to pray to Panagia and ask her for her Son’s mercy. This by itself is working for your salvation.
The act of praying to Christ already is working for your salvation. We need no one else but Christ.
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They say that I am bad news. They say "Stay Away."
Natasha wrote:Tom,
sometimes I think that you take your aggravations with the Orthodox religion out here on us...after all, your Greek Orthodox in-laws don't want to hear about them I am sure.....
Hah! My Greek Orthodox in-laws are more liberal than I am! They think I am too religious because I attend the Liturgy and am in the choir. They generally attend Church only on Easter and have not taken communion in over 20 years.
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They say that I am bad news. They say "Stay Away."
