ECUMENISM "FINALLY" REJECTED!

[Ephraem]

Forgive me. Making such comments on your prayer must be a sin.

[romiosini]

Forgive me. Making such comments on your prayer must be a sin.

Quite Human to have our conscience question someone, even if we don't understand. That is why we have the Fathers teaching us to develop a clear conscience not to fall in any conclusion or judgement without seeing and understanding something. It's all good. It's a sin, if you did not notice it...

Regarding Saint Philaret, actually, there were accounts of miracles by his intercession and his relics are incorrupt. So actually the term Newly-Revealed and Glorified both fit that Concluding Prayer.

[Suaidan]

Weeks after what you guys are describing as World Orthodoxy's new reaction to Florence, the EP signed a statement recognizing a common Baptism with the Lutherans.

Opposition to ecumenism has existed in World Orthodoxy now for years. Some of the strongest opponents of ecumenism came from Archimandrites of the State Church of Greece (Fr Philotheos Zervakos comes to mind). But has anything changed?

No. It's gotten worse. Screaming hooray for what is ultimately "same old same old" is nice. But I think it covers the real issue.

When the TOC of Georgia (they are with HOCNA) formed, the Patriarchate immediately began to condemn ecumenism (I think it was 1998 or 1999) and suddenly some Cyprianite priest was causing a stink for beating up Jehovah's Witnesses. Georgia was some big "light of Orthodoxy against ecumenism" even though the truth was they were showing more intolerance than real resistance to heresy.

Yet the TOC-Georgia didn't fall for the ruse. They stayed where they were, and didn't say "oh look, it's time to go back." They knew this game better.

And big surprise-- this year, the Patriarchate is looking for ways to get back in the WCC (and this is public knowledge, not conspiracy theory).

Truly there's nothing new under the sun. I hope that World Orthodoxy condemns ecumenism in truth. But in reality I see them as behaving like Uniates-- putting Saints in their calendars (although St Philaret is still being openly resistant) who condemn everything they do.

Sorry if I am not as impressed by a university conference, folks. I guess that makes me an obscurantist.

[Justin Kissel]

Well, certainly I await something to happen, but I for one am glad even hearing the things being said. This conference I think is more important than the last one on ecumenism, where the Orthodox basically said "We disagree with and will leave the Ecumenical movement! .... unless you change the structure of the WCC, then we'll stay". This conference seems to go far beyond that, and I look forward to reading some of the papers (particularly from the Serbs and Met. Hierotheos of Nafpaktos). I believe it was Demitri on this forum who said that he had actually seen some changes in the GOA towards a more conservative way of doing things. Legal battles aside, I've heard the same from other people about various "world Orthodox" groups. Obviously this doesn't make everything automatically change, where everyone will just get along, but it is a good start. The Arian controversy wasn't settled for decades (even generations) after Nicea, and it lingered on beyond that for centuries in the lands which fell outside of the influence of "Roman civilization". I suspect that ecumenism, and her cousin modernism, will take much longer to purge from the Church.

[Suaidan]

Well, certainly I await something to happen, but I for one am glad even hearing the things being said. This conference I think is more important than the last one on ecumenism, where the Orthodox basically said "We disagree with and will leave the Ecumenical movement! .... unless you change the structure of the WCC, then we'll stay". This conference seems to go far beyond that, and I look forward to reading some of the papers (particularly from the Serbs and Met. Hierotheos of Nafpaktos). I believe it was Demitri on this forum who said that he had actually seen some changes in the GOA towards a more conservative way of doing things. Legal battles aside, I've heard the same from other people about various "world Orthodox" groups. Obviously this doesn't make everything automatically change, where everyone will just get along, but it is a good start. The Arian controversy wasn't settled for decades (even generations) after Nicea, and it lingered on beyond that for centuries in the lands which fell outside of the influence of "Roman civilization". I suspect that ecumenism, and her cousin modernism, will take much longer to purge from the Church.

Well, I can agree with that, but the Arians were still Arians, and they were still all over Europe in the 6th century. All things considered the True Orthodox have barely started, and the world Orthodox are trying very hard to clean up.... and not doing too swift.

[John Haluska]

Regarding the present topic of Ecumenism;

if "it" is not the "issue", tell us, exactly what is "the real issue"?

John

[Suaidan]

Regarding the present topic of Ecumenism;

if "it" is not the "issue", tell us, exactly what is "the real issue"?

John

The real issue is that the official leadership of World Orthodoxy is firmly and unapologetically involved in ecumenism with absolutely no lasting signs of departure from it. Is that clearer?