Racial Pride/Tribalism and Orthodoxy. Are they compatable?

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George Australia
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Post by George Australia »

anastasios wrote:

Yes but you seem to indicate that Fr James is saying this.

That's not what I'm saying at all.
Anastasios, if I posted Arius' ideas on this forum with a comment saying

This forthright statement caused not the slightest ripple of controversy when it was published.....nor did it do so in subsequent editions of his book.... As recently as that, men seemed able to discuss and debate things, and to disagree with one another, without resorting to hyperbole, ad hominem attacks, hysteria, and defamatory labelling. Intelligent men were still able to focus their minds on facts and issues and to think and express themselves rationally.

would you not infer that I am in aggreement with Arius' ideas? And would you not also infer that I was attributing the Anathemas pronounced on his teachings by the Ecumenical Councils to the "hysteria" and "defamatory labelling" and "hyperbole" of the Fathers of the Church?
Thornton uses a quote to say what he wants to say himself. This is clear from the context of the quote. Thornton is not only a white supremacist, racist, bigot; he, like Arius, is an heretical 'priest' teaching the heresy of phyletism condemned by the Orthodox Church.
I know you Americans are fond of your right to free speech, but in the Orthodox Church, a priest is not free to preach heresy bare-headed, even if he lives in the USA.

brendan

Post by brendan »

George Australia wrote:

Thornton is not only a white supremacist, racist, bigot; he, like Arius, is an heretical 'priest' teaching the heresy of phyletism condemned by the Orthodox Church.

George, you're letting your leftism show. Nationalism used in a positive way is not a sin. I'm tracking down the source on the following article, but regardless of its author, it does more to shed light on the discussion than your personal attacks on Fr. James.

THE SOCIAL CONCEPT OF THE RUSSIAN ORTHODOX CHURCH

The universal nature of the Church ... does not mean that Christians should have no right to national identity and national self-expressions. On the contrary, the Church unites in herself the universal with the national. Thus, the Orthodox Church, though universal, consists of many Autocephalous National Churches. Orthodox Christians, aware of being citizens of the heavenly homeland, should not forget about their earthly homeland. ... The cultural distinctions of particular nations are expressed in the liturgical and other church art, especially in the peculiarities of Christian order of life. All this creates national Christian cultures.

Among saints venerated by the Orthodox Church, many became famous for the love of their earthly homeland and faithfulness to it. Russian hagiographic sources praise the holy Prince Michael of Tver who "gave his life for his fatherland", comparing his feat to the martyrdom of the holy protomartyr Dimitrius of Thessaloniki: "The good lover of his fatherland said about his native city of Thessaloniki, 'O Lord, if you ruin this city, I will perish together with it, but if you save it, I will also be saved'".

In all times the Church has called upon her children to love their homeland on earth and not to spare their lives to protect it if it was threatened. The Russian Church on many occasions gave her blessing to the people for them to take part in liberation wars. Thus, in 1380, the venerable Sergius the abbot and miracle-maker of Radonezh blessed the Russian troops headed by the holy Prince Dimitry Donskoy before their battle with the Tartar-Mongol invaders. In 1612, St. Hermogen, Patriarch of Moscow and All Russia, gave blessing upon the irregulars in their struggle with the Polish invaders. In 1813, during the war with the French aggressors, St. Philaret of Moscow said to his flock: "If you avoid dying for the honour and freedom of the Fatherland, you will die a criminal or a slave; die for the faith and the Fatherland and you will be granted life and a crown in heaven".

The holy righteous John of Kronstadt wrote this about love of one's earthly homeland: "Love the earthly homeland… it has raised, distinguished, honoured and equipped you with everything. ...

Christian patriotism may be expressed at the same time with regard to a nation as an ethnic community and as a community of its citizens. The Orthodox Christian is called to love his fatherland, which has a territorial dimension, and his brothers by blood who live everywhere in the world. This love is one of the ways of fulfilling God's commandment of love to one's neighbour which includes love to one's family, fellow-tribesmen and fellow-citizens.

brendan

Post by brendan »

brendan wrote:

[
THE SOCIAL CONCEPT OF THE RUSSIAN ORTHODOX CHURCH

Found it.

JUBILEE BISHOPS’ COUNCIL OF THE RUSSIAN ORTHODOX CHURCH
August 13 - 16, 2000, Moscow
http://www.russian-orthodox-church.org.ru/sd00e.htm

brendan

Post by brendan »

Orthodox6 wrote:

"OOD",

The problem is that the article is with a white supremacist organisation, and such groups make many of us retch to think that a priest would associate with hate-filled racists.

What "white supremacist" group are you referring to? Who are these so-called "hate-filled racists?"

Why do you throw around charges like that?

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George Australia
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Post by George Australia »

brendan, brendan, brendan...
what took you so long to join this thread?
Tell me, what race are americans? Thornton is talking about race. The Russian Orthodox Church is talking about nation.

brendan

Post by brendan »

George Australia wrote:

Tell me, what race are americans?

george, george, george,

You mean the original Americans, the group who actually founded the country? We are white. Nowadays, of course, we have non-whites who are US citizens.

BTW, if I moved to Japan and became a citizen, would I suddenly be Japanese? Maybe technically, but not actually.

Thornton is talking about race. The Russian Orthodox Church is talking about nation.

Race or nation, the principle is not so different as you would like to make it.

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Nicholas
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Post by Nicholas »

No the original Americans are the American Indians.

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