End Of Arguement Once And For All !

[Miriam]

I have been called many things in my lifetime....But Satanic? and a heretic? Never! Not even by my worst enemy......I hereby formally lodge a protest to the moderators of this forum!

Miriam

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Your evading the Fther's oppostion to the jews it is clear knowlage next your trying to imply jews are people God when the Church has stonchly opposed that and the way you imply these things also, is satanic by putting up wrong views by some crazed theologon claiming a LIE and then trying to teach it to a bunch of unlearned Orthodox thats Satanic I and other's should lodge aCOMPLAINT about you spreading lies about the Church, by the way when you loadge your complaint tell the moderator to read ALL of your posts about the Jews in Protocals thred and this thred in CHRONOLOGICAL order and inform them to read MY postes in chronilogical order "don't not to show my post in an out of context way o.k."

[brendan]

Well I'm sorry to hear that but I'm telling you guys what I'm saying is true, look why don't you guys go to lets say where a Saint is buried and pray to Him/Her and ask them is the antiJew position of the Church correct? they'll show you it's true. Look you don't here the opposition telling you to go to Saints about this or better yet got to a Monastery with a Holy Elder and ask them they'll tell yes, I of all people should KNOW

How is that the great leaders of the Church weren't confused when it came to recognizing the Jews as enemies of Christ? I guess we're just so enlightened and they were just a bunch of hatemongers and antisemites? Well, I give the Fathers more credit than that.

Failure to accept this fact of Jewish hostility is simply denying reality. All one has to do is study every anti-Christian movement or effort and it will be obvious that Jews will almost always be found prominantly either instigating or supporting these efforts. It doesn't require hours of pouring over obscure books. Just pay attention to the news. Open your eyes.

Anytime Jews appear friendly to Christians, you can be sure its because doing so will benefit Jews. This is explicitly taught in the Talmud. Like now we see certain Jews praising Evangelical Christians 24/7 like they have been bosum buddies forever. Of course, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out this is done purely out of self-interest as the Jews need the political support of the Evangelicals to further the interests of the Zionist state in Palestine and to help in their troubles with Muslims. Its certainly not because Jews have disavowed Moses Maimonides' command to to destroy Christians.

[尼古拉前执事]

Artemon, consider this your warning of receiving a time-out. Your posting privledges are hereby revoked until you can play nice with the other kids in the sandbox. Again, we can disagree on ideas, we can disagree on opinions, but we cannot make personal attacks or make ranting posts. You may email me in a few weeks when you have calmed down and think you can act properly.

[CGW]

Anytime Jews appear friendly to Christians, you can be sure its because doing so will benefit Jews.

Brendan, why do you say such malicious things? Does it not occur to you that some of us have Jewish friends, and thus can put your rantings to the test?

This is explicitly taught in the Talmud.

And surely by now you should understand that the standard for such claims is very high? Can you provide a real citation, on a reference website where I can see it for myself and adjudge the reliability of the hosting organization? If you can't, then you're just passing on rumors. Surely your priests and bishops frown upon that.

Its certainly not because Jews have disavowed Moses Maimonides' command to to destroy Christians.

Again, I do not believe that you can demonstrate satisfactorily that Maimonides ever said any such thing. I believe that you are merely passing around the slanders you have been told, without any real knowledge of their truth or falsehood. Again-- I cannot believe that your clergy would endorse such acts.

[brendan]

I believe that you are merely passing around the slanders you have been told, without any real knowledge of their truth or falsehood. Again-- I cannot believe that your clergy would endorse such acts.

You can believe what you want. But I have a question for you: what will you say if I proved my claims?

You only assume I'm making false claims just because you are unfamiliar with the subject. but I suggest you do some reading on this subject before you tell me I'm wrong. I don't make things up. Its not necessary.

So I have no "real knowledge?" I've read probably forty serious books on the subject of Jews and Judaism - most of which were written by Jews!

You should read the following books (not in any particular order) that deal with the Jews. All are available from Amazon. These will give you basic knowledge:

1. Jewish History, Jewish Religion by Israel Shahak, Ph.D.
2. Jewish Fundamentalism in Israel by Israel Shahak, Ph.D.
3. Judaism's Strange Gods by Michael Hoffman II
4. A People That Shall Dwell Alone by Kevin MacDonald, Ph.D.
5. Separation and Its Discontents by Kevin MacDonald, Ph.D.
6. The Culture of Critique by Kevin MacDonald, Ph.D.
7. Homilies Against the Jews by St. John Chrysostom

[CGW]

I believe that you are merely passing around the slanders you have been told, without any real knowledge of their truth or falsehood. Again-- I cannot believe that your clergy would endorse such acts.

You can believe what you want. But I have a question for you: what will you say if I proved my claims?

Well, I've done some checking up on the list of books you cite.

First, about putting "Ph.D." after the author's names: this is immediately a sign of bogonic scholarship. Real scholarly work doesn't bother with the title, because it is assumed. The important stuff is things like affiliation and education.

Israel Shahak was a chemist, so his doctorate is no more germane than my masters (MSCS 1985 UMCP). His name is notorious in Israeli political circles, and I found (for instance) this review of his book, and this Wikipedia article, and another article. He is most certainly not a generally recognized authority.

It's somewhat difficult to find good information on Michael Hoffman; he seems to be cited on every dubious site on the net. Reading Amazon reviews of his book, however, seems to indicate that he doesn't understand how to read the Talmud-- or does understand and misrepresents it on purpose. It's very easy to get extremely negative quotes out of the Talmud-- because it isn't a book of rulings, because presents them in a way that guarantees that these negative statements appear in the text.

One of the Amazon reviews deserves to be quoted in its entirety:

It seems obvious to me that the author of this book and most of his most favorable reviewers have little or no formal education in Judaism or comparative Western religions. I always find it illuminating, when a book so polarizes its reviewers here on Amazon, to look at the other reviews written by the readers. Here it was particularly illuminating because the readers who laud this book so far beyond its merits have equally championed books that can only be described as out there on the fringe.

But I must continue on to Mr. MacDonald. He at least has some claim to meaningful credentials, but again I find that he is a figure of controversy. At the very least he is making an argument which pretty much demands to be taken out of context. You don't believe in evolutionary psychology (or else you wouldn't be in this forum), so why are you using it to justify your position?

Finally, we get to Chrysostom. By chance, the first copy of the homilies I came across (at Fordham) has an apology for obtaining it from an anti-semitic site! It also has quite a bit of discussion attached to it. At any rate, the saint is surely not an expert on Jewish culture today.

You only assume I'm making false claims just because you are unfamiliar with the subject. but I suggest you do some reading on this subject before you tell me I'm wrong. I don't make things up. Its not necessary.

I never said you made anything up. What I did say was that you are merely repeating falsehoods made by others, without subjecting them to sufficient criticism. And indeed, that does seem to be the case. It is a minimal requirement of scholarship to have some familiarity with the criticism of those you take as sources. What struck me most about trying to research these people on the internet is how difficult it was to get away from the booksellers and the many, many sites trumpetting them as authorities.