What to do about Islamic Expansion in US?

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Wheeler
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Post by Wheeler »

Okay George of Australia,

I have eaten at many Protestant and Catholic soup kitchens. I have never eaten at an Orthodox soup kitchen.

At college, the Protestant fundamentalist Christians went around with their bibles quoting scripture and meeting quietly on a Saturday night for prayer and worship. The witness of the Orthodox on campus was a beer can in hand and partying to the wee hours of the morning and I couldn't get the nine of them to Orthodox church.

Protestants know their faith and can defend it. Orthodox youth don't know a darn thing.

Protestants and Catholics show up on time for their services. I have been to many Protestant services and hardly anyone shows up late. Go to a Greek Orthodox service and half the people show up after the Gospel reading and a third show up after the eucharist. That never happens in a Catholic church.

Protestants can create an America. Orthodoxy couldn't.

Most Orthodox I know vote democratic/socialist. They vote for Enemies of Christianty. At least it is the Protestants, Jerry Falwell, Pastor John Hagee, Dobson etc, Catholics like Buchanan fighting to retain the Christian character of this country. Where's the Orthodox? Lost in Space?

In Protestant America, Protestants and Catholics are leading the fight against abortion. In ORTHODOX Greece, women have up to twenty abortions. Is there a pro-life movement in Greece? When was the last time at an orthodox liturgy did the collective pray for the end of abortion? Protestants and Catholics do all the time.

Point-Set-Match.

If you can't led people to liberty in this life, how can you led people to liberty in the next? You can't. I guess people should live in slavery.

George
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Post by George »

I have great trepidation in writing a post on this topic - my whole country is a country of immigrants. The Maori arrived here from Polynesia around 1000 years ago, the English from the 19th century. For most of the 20th century the only major immigration was European (and mainly British at that - if I am not mistaken even now our largest number of immigrants are from England). My family has only been here 7 generations. Many white New Zealanders would call themselves European even though we are not born in Europe - we also use the Maori term Pakeha, though some people seem to object to that word.

In the 1970s there was a lot of Polynesian immigration, which caused a lot of concern and downright racism. Nowadays Islanders form a vital part of life in NZ (and for the record are much more religious and Church-going than the majority of pakeha). From the 1990s there has been a huge amount of Asian immigration. Once again racism raised its ugly head. These days there is a lot of immigration from all over the world and to see an African walking down the street or a muslim woman covered from head to toe is not so unusual these days, at least not in Auckland. Some suburbs of Auckland it seems like you are in a foreign country and not even in NZ anymore! It is great to be able to buy all kinds of 'exotic' foods and products - until the 1980s there was very little choice in this country as to what was available in shops.

My point is that we are all created by God, and we have to try to love all people. We are all from Adam. How can one not love one's brother? and we are all, after all, related to every other person on Earth. Is it easy? No. It is very difficult when there are lots of different cultures trying to live in one area, but this too can help us to learn to love each other too, and to appreciate our differences. There is no place in Christianity for condemning someone for race or creed. We need to pray for them, and we need to try and live a Christian life - St Seraphim said something along the lines of save yourself and 1000s around you will be saved. Certainly I think we should have more children. Unfortunately we have 'evolved' into a society where the individual reigns supreme and having children means I can't work/buy that DVD/go on holiday to Fiji/ etc etc etc (take your pick), but in the end, children are more important than any of those things. In this country, the situation is such that wages are not very good, and even with just two young children, most families find that they can not survive unless both parents are working full-time. (On the other hand there are a lot of 'luxuries' that we can do without).

The Priest at our local Serbian Church also told us about how the number of children born to Muslims changed the demographics, and it is a very sobering thought.

My apologies for such a rambling post - there isn't really a 'point' to it, except that striving for our salvation, and trying our hardest to love our neighbours as ourselves is what we need to be doing - not condemning and judging other people. And by neighbour, I don't mean people we like or are close to, but the people we don't don't know so well, the people who offend us, the people who we are afraid of or are suspicious of. It can't be easy, and I am sure I am a good example of "do as I say not as I do", but how can we expect salvation when we can not even try to love our fellow humans?

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George Australia
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Location: Down Under (Australia, not Hades)

Post by George Australia »

WHEELER wrote:

Point-Set-Match.

Having a bad day Wheeler? I suppose every day without Christ is a bad day.
I've nothing more to say to you..."For I will not speak of Your Mysteries to Your enemies..."

"As long as it depends on Monothelitism, then Miaphysitism is nothing but a variant of Monophysitism."

OrthodoxyOrDeath

Post by OrthodoxyOrDeath »

brendan

Post by brendan »

George wrote:

My point is that we are all created by God, and we have to try to love all people. We are all from Adam. How can one not love one's brother? and we are all, after all, related to every other person on Earth. Is it easy? No. It is very difficult when there are lots of different cultures trying to live in one area, but this too can help us to learn to love each other too, and to appreciate our differences. There is no place in Christianity for condemning someone for race or creed.

There's also nothing in Christianity that requires any nation to be overwhelmed with unwanted immigrants who commit large amounts of crime, exploit tax-payer funded social services like there's no tomorrow, and lower the quality of life for millions of citizens.

In the case of America, our immigrant problem is mostly Mexican. Now I have nothing against the people of Mexico. Its an interesting country and many Mexicans are nice people. But if wanted to live in Mexico, I'd move to Mexico!

In the US, the first most place immigrants go is to the welfare office to sign-up for dozens of handouts! Years ago, a person couldn't come to the US if he were likely to become a "public charge." Now that seems to be all we get. Even so-called "hard-working" immigrants are on the dole. I know, because I've worked with them. They thought it was a big joke that they never had to pay for anything.

All the polls taken in the US clearly show that Americans want immigration greatly reduced or eliminated. So where's you concern for the majority of people who don't want these immigrants? I guess they have no say in the destiny of their own country?

Where in Christianity are we commanded to dispossess ourselves from our own country? I never heard of it.

Well, as you can tell, I'm pretty burned up over the outrageous immigration situation. And I'm certainly not alone.

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George Australia
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Location: Down Under (Australia, not Hades)

Post by George Australia »

brendan wrote:

Well, as you can tell, I'm pretty burned up over the outrageous immigration situation. And I'm certainly not alone.

brendan,
There's that word again:"immigration". I wonder what your Spiritual Father in the OCA (to which you say you belong) says about your views? Surely if you are "burned up" over this, then you have discussed it with your Spiritual Father?

"As long as it depends on Monothelitism, then Miaphysitism is nothing but a variant of Monophysitism."

George
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Joined: Sun 19 October 2003 11:37 pm
Location: New Zealand

Post by George »

There are a lot of people riled up here as well about immigration, and it has become harder to settle in New Zealand lately, but the fact is, all of us in NZ are immigrants, and I include the 'indiginous' here too because they came 1000 years ago from elsewhere. In Australia, Canada or the US, you are also descended from immigrants unless you are pure aborigine or Amerindian. It doesn't matter where someone is from, we are all people, created in the image of God, and it is sin to judge or condemn someone because of where they come from.
I lived for many years in a foreign country where I was a racial minority, but did not encounter much in the way of discrimination if any at all.
I do not know what the situation in America is like, or what reasons people might have for immigrating there. Here we have a lot of people who have escaped from war-torn areas, and have suffered much and gone through things I doubt we brought up in our pampered societies could endure. To say to people "Go away, you are not welcome" would be inexcusable. It is also true people have come here to take advantage of our education system, our welfare system etc. The sad thing is that a large number of people who aren't recent immigrants are 3rd generation welfare dependants. There are many problems, but a lack of compassion and caring need not be added to the list.

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