OCA

[Natasha]

"The prayers for Russia are simply prayers for their homeland, like we would pray for our families, because many of them were left behind. "

I just wanted to add that many "old school" OCA churches still include this part in their service, in fact I was shocked when the one I was attending down here in the south suddenly pulled the phrase out a few years back (it was like one Sunday morning the Priest said, enough of this, we are American :ohvey: ) and that part of the prayer was never said again in that church.

[Nektarios14]

Even now Christians in the former soviet union are still recovering (and facing an onslaught of JW and other "missionaries") so it is only right to keep praying for them. Just like ROCOR added in its litanies prayers for the suffering Christians in Kosovo.

[Justin2]

Well, Joasia, like I said, I knew I'd step on some toes, but I apologize if I came off the wrong way! I know that ROCOR is first and foremost yoked with the responsibility of taking care of Russian immigrants and refugees, and their descendants, and I didn't mean to come off as accusatory. But I'm still not a Russian, nor are the majority of American converts to Orthodoxy. That is why we need a church that liturgizes in English and has a clergy and hierarchy that understands our culture. Doesn't the Church have a tradition of adapting what is canonically adaptable to a people's culture when they do missionary work? Isn't this the case in Japan, and in Alaska, and wasn't it the case in Russia after Ss. Cyril and Methodius? Why shouldn't it be the case here? The problem is, it's been almost three-hundred years. Americans should have a dicoses in which they can live their Faith without feeling like they're stepping into a foreign arena, and that is why I stick up for the OCA. It's the nearest thing to a truly American Orthodox Church.

[TomS]

... it's been almost three-hundred years. Americans should have a dicoses in which they can live their Faith without feeling like they're stepping into a foreign arena,...

Here! Here!

[joasia]

Justin,

Shoot. You gave me no offense at all. I was trying to throw in some humour with the flying tomato.

I'm a convert too. What I was trying to say was that, considering the Apostolic Successions which identifies the legitamacy of the line of Orthodoxy, they keep the connection to the source. With ROCA it is Russia. And I figured with OCA, which came out of Russia, it should also be Russia. But, if they consist, mainly of converts, I guess they should still give notice for Russia. Afterall, whose icons are in the church? American saints? I know there are the Aleut saints(who were under the Russian diocese), but who else in the States have been made saints?

Fr. Seraphim Rose would be the closest to that, up 'til now, if he is consecrated a saint.

But, I agree, that this is a unique situation for us American/Canadian born converts...we don't even have Russian relatives.

The Met. of the convert Orthodox would still have to be part of the undivided succession of bishops of Orthodoxy. So, that would be from one of the main countries outside of North America.

[Justin2]

Oh, and I didn't actually say it, but by "American" I of course meant Canada, the US and (yes) Mexico. Of course, Mexico is so very Roman that I don't think there would be much of a conversion rate there.

[romiosini]

It's now the "Former Soviet Union/Russian Federation". There are holy sites and holy people and many historic areas but this is like calling Greece Holy Byzantium. It's not the same thing anymore.
Concerning praying for the Holy Russian People, that's not something to be undercut, but in an American church, the focus needs to be on America primarily, and then if on others, why not the Russians, Greeks, Serbs, Cypriots, etc. instead of just one group? I'm sorry if I'm not making any sense now, but I'm trying to explain why, amid the dispute over the OCA, if the ROCOR and OCA are going to eventually find themselves on good terms again (they're already doing fairly well with each other as it is), is there going to be some kind of union, or just different jurisdictions within the country? I think it's important for ROCOR to exist for Russians and their families, but I think that it's also important to have a church that's truly American.

Code: Select all

 I realize that I haven't put this very eloquently, and if I stepped on a few toes, please, PLEASE forgive me!  I'm not trying whatsoever to undermine any particular ethnic or national group in Orthodoxy, I'm really just trying to make an argument for my national group and our desire to have a church that we can truly call our own.  I think that the OCA is definitely the meanse to do this by, if not the precursor.  Again, sorry if I offended anyone.  I'm just trying to say what I feel.  Let the tomatoes fly!  :mrgreen:[/quote]

I'm sorry to say, but I like to protest when someone seperates Cypriots from Greeks (Hellenes). Cypriots are nothing less than simply Greeks. It is sad to know how in our decade people would seperate Cyprus from Greece which it is absolutely wrong. The independance of Cyprus didn't come from the Greeks, but the Sick British who took over the Island. (Church History maybe?) Cyprus became autocephalous because God wanted it to be, just like Crete is semi-autonomous. The Church of Crete isn't with Greece, and never was actually, does that mean that the immigrants in America are to be called by the regional origin? It's like saying Croatian aren't slavic relatives to the Serbs, but yet call themselves Croat Serbs!

Well what I am trying to say is, try not to seperate Cyprus from Greece, even though it is seperated politicly speaking.

(Sorry for the extra chatter!) [/quote]