Appeal of the Laity to ROCOR Synod

[Etienne]

I have been doing some checking. There will be two appeals to the Synod of the ROCOR. One from the Laity and one from the Clergy, to be presented on 5 July, 2004, in time for the next meeting of the Synod.

While I do not know the originators of the Laity Appeal I have complete trust and confidence in the sobriety and integrity of my contact regarding the Clergy Appeal.

Repeating myself, these are matters of the gravest import. They stand above personalities and petty politicking.

As another contributor put it, we are not congregationalists. We belong to that Royal Priesthood of believers and have a responsibility to pass on the pearl of True Faith without addition or subtraction. Whatever is done must be done prayerfully, with sobriety and integrity.

[Justin Kissel]

Though I don't think it will matter much (and though I don't deserve forgiveness), I'd like to apologize to you, Ania. I overreacted yesterday, and was at the very least hypocritical in what I said. Love means trying to understand people... giving them the benefit of the doubt, looking the other way (rather than attacking them) when we disagree, etc... this certainly doesn't describe me.

Regarding the statement, I would gladly sign, if I were still a member of ROCOR.

[ania]

Ania,

You are very judgemental. Your OPINION stands on thin air here. You'll have to back up your ACCUSATIONS with clear explanations if you want to be taken seriously.

Don't be so hasty to sling rocks. I bet you'd be the first to throw the stone at Mary Magdelaine without a second thought.

You're not God, so you have no right to condemn actions. Questioning is reasonable, but leave the condemnation to God.

P.S. I don't understand your humour with your quote. Any jokes incorporating God (any of the three divinities) is profoundly distasteful.

The post I started regarding the "kooks..." I wasn't finished posting & a client called, flinging me into several meetings, reports, conference calls etc. I did not have time to finish it, and when I was closing out I guess I pressed "submit." Here is what I was planning to say...

First & foremost, I would like to remind people I am talking about the Laity Appeal, not the Clergy one.

My opinion regarding the people who drafted this letter stands firm. It is by people who have caused serious problems in their home parishes regarding trivial issues. These people, after many years of friendship, with us, as well as many other people, would ignore us when seeing us simply because they "just know" which way we're going to swing in church politics. (never mind that their kids played with us as children, and we would visit quite often, I remember sleepovers & birthday parties... no, that was simply thrown out because we might have a different opinion re church politics) These are the same people that, when the Priest Council convened in December, rather than going through the proper channels & speaking their piece in front of all, drove around to the hotels the priests were staying in, found out their room numbers, & left "literature" under all their doors, encouraging dissent from the ROCOR synod, even before discussions really started at the conference. They are reactionary.
As far as the seemingly very fast pace of reconciliation between ROCOR & the MP. There is cause for concern regarding several issues, (I have my own reservations, but I trust Met. Lavr) which are now being worked out by comities appointed by the synod. The people who wrote this petition have as much faith in the ROCOR synod that you would leaving a 5 year-old with a box of matches in the woodshed. When Met. Vitaly was head of ROCOR, the people who disagreed with him were respectful (for the most part, I'm sure it wasn't totally 100%), & took up their problems directly with him (my dad & granddad, both clergy, had several such encounters).
And Joasia.... I know I am sinful, and therefore I wouldn't have cast stones at Mary Magdalene. That right there was a judgmental statement on your part.
As for my quote... I, a very long time ago, had some serious doubts about what God could or couldn't do. This quote (from the Simpsons) spoke to me because of that. It's a reminder to have faith that God can do whatever He wants.

[Miriam]

The thing that troubles me the most is the tendency of the church to treat it's members as if we were sheep and its expectation that the sheep will follow without question. The problem is that we live in troubled times, CAUTION should be in our hands and questioning in our mouths. Yes, we need to trust in our spiritual leaders, but we must also remember that they are men ... graced with all the faults and doubts and uncertainties with which we are graced.

Unfortunately, in every crowd, there are those who have their own political agenda, others who feel more strongly than most and those few who want to control. God gave us a functioning brain with which to reason and to understand, we need to be careful of the unruly as well as the overzealous.

The idea of an all encompassing Synod seems to be a good idea, yet the church seems to fear it greatly. As to the last Synod, seems to me I read a lot more negative accounts about the meeting, it did not seem to be a truly "open" meeting. "Controlled" comes to mind. Why is the church so afraid to listen...truly listen....to its members? Why is the Synod of Bishops so against holding such a meeting? Can't they put the control issue aside and let us know what is going on? We might just surprise them. Our reservations in this might be a sign from God to be cautious and it might be a sign from the other way too....all the more reason for caution.

Too many hot heads and not enough caution.....oh, my aching head!! :ohvey:

[ania]

At the Clergy Conference in December, not everyone got to speak, because not everyone was clergy. Any clergyman with thoughts, concerns, whatever, was given an oppertunity to speak. Several opponents to MP-ROCOR diologue got up to the microphone mulitple times.
It is not the fault of the pro-MP people that some clergy (a certain bishop of Manhatten & others) gave the appearence of dosing off during presentations, and perhaps missed a chance to speak.
It is not to be forgotten, in December it was a CLERGY conference. The laiety that drafted the above address were at the clergy conference, and were told that they would be given some time toward the end of the conference to address all present, as they represented concerned laity. These laymen/women decided to, rather than wait their turn, start what many priests/people saw as propoganda (as before mentioned, leaving pamplets in clergy hotel rooms). They were asked to leave after many priests (pro, anti, and inbetween about the MP) complained to Met. Lavr & the organizers of the conference.
If they call a ALL ROCOR MEMBERs conference, that I would go & expect the opertunity to speak. If I had gone to the Clergy conference, I woulda sat quietly, observed, & then given feedback to clergy who are my friends & family.

[joasia]

Ania,

You did make a mistake in calling that group kooks..what I mean is that we should pray for them, not call them names.

As for the judgement comment you made: I wasn't judging, I was voicing my opinion about the impression you gave off. I didn't say you were going to burn in hell for what you said, now did I? That would be judgement. There's a difference.

I understand how people can get confused with these issues. I just thought that you were being extreme. And if you are a decent person, you could at least admit that you phrased your comment inappropriately.

I have nothing to do with them, in case you were wondering; but I do know about the confusion that can occur amongst people who used to be friends and now are not. It has also broken up many families.

I still think any humour using Christ's name is inappropriate. Your explanation gives no consideration to that.

Your excuse for your post sounds along the line of "my dog ate my homework".

P.S. My confessor priest was one of the clergy that broke away. That was like a kick in the stomach, but I will not call him a "kook", just misled. I also, have a friend I keep in contact with, from time to time, who's with this group. We can still talk with mutual respect. But, he insists that he is with the right way.

He chooses his path, I choose mine. But, we should always, first, pray for God to have mercy on us and bring us back together, in truth.

Considering the states of our souls, do you really believe that we DESERVE to have a perfect church body? Because of our sins, we are getting this. Many saints of ROCA have stated that the bolshevik revolution was due to the state of the people's souls. The same as when Constantinople fell. The people didn't deserve the peaceful unity of the church because they were descecrating the faith with apostacy.

[尼古拉前执事]

An email I received from the Communications Director of the Synod of ROCOR, Nicholas Ohoton today:

If you wish to include your name on this document, please e-mail your name, church and city to supportforbishops@mail.com

To His Eminence Metropolitan Laurus

To the Eminent Members of the Synod of Bishops

Your Eminence Metropolitan Laurus, Your Eminences, Your Graces:

We, the undersigned, wish to express our support for you, our hierarchs, during this important time in the history of our Church. While we have remained the mostly-silent majority for some time now, we find it necessary to support you explicitly at this time. We find it necessary to do so now because we are witnessing, sadly, many instances of inappropriate behavior on the part of our lay brothers and sisters as well as among some of our clergy.

We find it disturbing and painful to see, among the minority of our members, a lack of respect towards you and a lack of trust in the Divine guidance of our Sobor. We share in the pain you feel from some of the writings, clandestine meetings, appeals for signatures and general discussions emanating from these individuals. Many who do so are oblivious to the actual state of affairs in the Russian Orthodox Church of the Moscow Patriarchate, do not know the purpose of the Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia, ignore the history of divisions within the Orthodox Church over the centuries and how they were overcome, and ignore the spiritual steadfastness of our Church Abroad.

We are further offended and embarrassed by those among us who point fingers at some of you in particular, who make threats of schism, and who demand arbitrary conditions, based upon either misinformation or ignorance,
for establishing peace with the MP.

We are pleased to see significant progress in the relations between our Church Abroad and the MP, and place our faith in our Lord and our Sobor to find the proper resolution to our remaining differences.

We understand that the correct conditions upon which spiritual unity can be reached are well understood by you, our bishops, and that the appropriate measures will be taken to ensure the purity of our Russian Orthodox Faith.

We continue to hold our faith in the guidance of our Metropolitan Laurus and in our Sobor of Bishops. You have guided us in the past through difficult times and through complex canonical and ecclesiastical decisions and we continue to trust your ability to do so.

Eis polla eti despota!

Seeking your holy prayers,