Considering the stuff that we do to food these days, almost nothing can be said to be 100% "natural". I imagine almost everything has some type of artificial tampering (whether in genetics or crop dusting or whatever). I never much bought into the whol artificial=bad / natural=good dichotomy anyway.
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Michael111 wrote:Lucian wrote:I am also glad that Michael111 has overcome his addictions.
That said, I also believe that alcoholic beverages are gifts of God to man to be enjoyed in moderation and with restraint.
Fruits, vegetables, etc... are natural
alcohol is a man-made toxin
Michael111
Not exactly true, Michael.
The first alcoholic beverage was probably a sweet liquid concoction (like honey and water or malt and water) left outside and kissed by winds bearing wild yeasts. Belgian monks still use a very similar method to produce their world-renowned beers.
Yeast, a naturally-occurring, microscopic plant, eats sugars and produces alcohol and C02.
Some folks cannot safely use alcoholic beverages and so should avoid them.
Others can use them and are under no obligation not to.
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Anastasios
- Sr Member
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- Joined: Thu 7 November 2002 11:40 pm
- Faith: Eastern Orthodox
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Let me tell you something Michael. It's people like you who have created a really bad situation in states like North Carolina, where I used to live. Down there, people look at you funny even when you have a beer, which has led people to drink in secret and become alcoholics. Drinking a beer is okay and if Jesus were around today I'm sure he'd partake of a brewsky every once and awhile, just like he ate at parties and "hung out" with his friends. We don't need to be puritans. Total opposition to alcohol leads people to become more prone to abuse it.
Disclaimer: Many older posts were made before my baptism and thus may not reflect an Orthodox point of view.
Please do not message me with questions about the forum or moderation requests. Jonathan Gress (jgress) will be able to assist you.
Please note that I do not subscribe to "Old Calendar Ecumenism" and believe that only the Synod of Archbishop Kallinikos is the canonical GOC of Greece. I do believe, however, that we can break down barriers and misunderstandings through prayer and discussion on forums such as this one.
I think most people do not realize how the ancients used to drink wine as it is very different than how we do today. While the wine itself was more or less the same as any wine made today via traditional methods the people during Christ's time did not pour huge cups of straight wine to drink. Their actual wine glasses had a interesting simple design but is hard to explain. It was a normal cup except at the bottom it has little indentation (like a mini cup built into the big cup) which was as I remember around 1/8th of the total volume. This mini cup was then filled with the concentrated wine(which we drink straight today) The other 7/8ths of the cup was the filled with water and that was the wine they would drink.
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Justin Kissel
Justin Kissel wrote:Elijah,
I'm sorry for being dense, but I don't quite understand the point of what you are saying? Certainly people got drunk back then on alcohol, so I'm not quite sure I understand why you posted what you did?
I'm telling of how people of Christ time used much more moderation in their drinking. Think about it...It takes mabye 3 to 5 glasses of wine (today) to get someone drunk but in Christ's time it would take 24-40 cups of wine to get someone drunk as the wine they drank was diluted to the point of it being 7/8 water. This was simply they way they dank wine. Most likely because of its cost for one thing. Moderation is the key which is something with we lack today. Of course I'm sure people did get drunk but they did so most likely much much less as drinking habits were defined much differently than today. Sorry if I'm not making much sence. I'm a huge ancient history buff so when some one says a keyword like "wine" I get the urge to start rambling off about ancient culture....