Western "holidays" that fall during fasts

The practice of living the life in Christ: fasting, vigil lamps, head-coverings, family life, icon corners, and other forms of Orthopraxy. All Forum Rules apply.


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Liudmilla
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Post by Liudmilla »

The problem here is not with giving offense. The problem lies more is seeming to be too far outside the "norm". A story goes that a monk was invited to someones house for dinner. Never having entertained a monk before his hosts prepared what they thought was appropriate food for a guest. The monk's kelienick...not sure of the english word... promptly raised a bit of a fuss...how could they and so forth...The monk reproached his kelienick and ate the meal served. Later he explained to his perplexed young student...it was a greater offense to insult the honest and sincere efforts of the hosts, than to break the rule of fasting. I think that he was right. If you are served something that is not "kosher" because your hosts did not know, well then partake and then fast more strictly at home.

However, there are ways around these problems. In the case of family and friends, let them know in advance... most will accommondate you. I recently had vegans and carnivores... :) ...at the same table, because they let me know ahead of time I was able to serve something for both types. (The vegans had let me know what they ate and what they did not.) As an Orthodox person I found it easy to accommondate them. In past when I simply had to attend a company Christmas party, I approached the person who was planning the party and they made arrangements to have something available to me to eat. This inturn actually worked for a number of people. You do not have to drink or dance at such affairs and after dinner you can always leave early.

Thanksgiving is problematic, but if you graciously ask in advance most mothers will accommondate you (do it nicely). The problem here is not so much the fast as keeping family unity and peace. In the case of children, family connections are important.

Fasting is important, but if you are fasting for the sake of fasting then it is an empty fast. If you are fasting in your heart as well as in food, then your fast has more meaning and benefit. Others will respect you for your principles.

However, I think that if you have fostered discord where there could have been peace, you have suffered a greater sin. If you take pride in your "sacrifice" then you are suffering from pride and your fast is empty. Don't forget the saying... Do things so that your left hand does not know what your right hand is doing. Practice your Orthodoxy quietly and in secret, if you are doing it properly, your Orthodoxy will shine of itself without your conscious "primping" (lack of a better word), If you are not, then you are no better than the pharisee who said "don't make me like him".

sashaedwardovna
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Post by sashaedwardovna »

Elijah wrote:

Sasha: Earlier today while I was lost somewhere inside my mind Isuddenly realized who you are(well 99% sure anyway) Were you at St. Seraphim's Camp last year?

I did, at that. Um, I'm not quite sure who you are, although I should know. Names and faces, y'know :oops: Anyway, I'll be there this year too, lol, now I'll be wracking my brains trying to figure out who you are. Sorry for interrupting the thread of the conversation everyone.

OrthodoxyOrDeath

Post by OrthodoxyOrDeath »

LIUDMILLA

Thanksgiving is problematic, but if you graciously ask in advance most mothers will accommondate you (do it nicely). The problem here is not so much the fast as keeping family unity and peace. In the case of children, family connections are important.

That's just it. Of course as Christ and the Holy Fathers say, you should not walk around drawing attention to yourself as in, "look at me, I am fasting". But anyone who is Orthodox knows, its impossible to keep such things secret from loved ones. And I don't beleive it was intended to be a guarded secret general.

So to add to what you said, clearly your close family should know you fast so they are not constantly dragging you into situations or not offended when you constantly decline.

At "Thanksgiving", my close relatives know when we are fasting, but they know (as we always ask) not to advertise it to the ones not "in the know".

We have done this enough years now that it is not even an issue - at all.

Elijah
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Post by Elijah »

sashaedwardovna wrote:

I did, at that. Um, I'm not quite sure who you are, although I should know. Names and faces, y'know :oops: Anyway, I'll be there this year too, lol, now I'll be wracking my brains trying to figure out who you are. Sorry for interrupting the thread of the conversation everyone.

In order to not keep posting off topic posts in this thread I sent you a PM. :)

Nektarios14
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Post by Nektarios14 »

For thanksgiving it is possible to make fasting sidedishes...my Mom makes very good stuffing and mashed potatos. So it is possible to fill up your plate and eat - if you do that most people won't notice you are fasting.

At work no one knows that I fast - everyong just thinks I'm a healthfood freak :lol:
After the feast of Saints Peter and Paul they are going to wonder what happened to me!

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ania
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Post by ania »

Thanksgiving for us is simple (almost never celebrate it with non-Orthos). We either do it the weekend before, which is still usually non-fasting. If we decide to do it while fasting, well, duh, making fasting food. With all the tofu, blah blah blah that is offered today, it's not to hard to cover an entire table, from appetizers to dessert.
Even if you don't want to go tofu, here's a menu for Thanksgiving that will leave you stuffed to the gills (this is what we eat on Thanksgiving, my dad's namesday (12/13) and my brother's namesday (12/19) ).
Appetizers:
Pickled mushrooms, herring, caviar, pickles, salmon, bread, and any cold pasta salad w/o cheese.
Main course:
Eggplant caviar, beet salad (vinaigrette), baked/mashed potatoes, pirog/piroshki (your pick of potato or cabbage or best of all, mushroom), steamed carrot & green peppers, salmon steaks (if a fish day), potato salad, salad, etc etc.
Dessert:
Fruit pies, so many fruit pies, dark chocolate, hard candy, zvar (warm fruit punch made from peaches, figs, and lots of other things, depends on your family recipe).

As for the 4th of July... well, I'm organizing a BBQ... all my friends are non-0rtho, I'll make myself a couple of tofu burgers on the side, and that'll be it, no need to avoid a holiday that celebrates the independence of this great nation we live in, especially since it was that holiday that enabled us (at least my family) 50 years ago to come over here & practice our religion.

Christmas parties, New Years parties... well, New Years I always celebrate, but Christmas parties around 12/25 I go to friends houses that know I'm Ortho, and they prepare a couple dishes accordingly. As for company parties, I dunno, I've always managed to get through them without anyone commenting that I'm only eating cranberry sauce & stuffing.

Theodora Elizabeth
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Post by Theodora Elizabeth »

LIUDMILLA wrote:

However, there are ways around these problems. In the case of family and friends, let them know in advance... most will accommondate you. I recently had vegans and carnivores... :) ...at the same table, because they let me know ahead of time I was able to serve something for both types. (The vegans had let me know what they ate and what they did not.) As an Orthodox person I found it easy to accommondate them. In past when I simply had to attend a company Christmas party, I approached the person who was planning the party and they made arrangements to have something available to me to eat. This inturn actually worked for a number of people. You do not have to drink or dance at such affairs and after dinner you can always leave early.

Thanksgiving is problematic, but if you graciously ask in advance most mothers will accommondate you (do it nicely). The problem here is not so much the fast as keeping family unity and peace. In the case of children, family connections are important.

Fasting is important, but if you are fasting for the sake of fasting then it is an empty fast. If you are fasting in your heart as well as in food, then your fast has more meaning and benefit. Others will respect you for your principles.

However, I think that if you have fostered discord where there could have been peace, you have suffered a greater sin.

Well, in my office, "drunken bacchanalia" is the only way to describe the office "Christmas party! :shock: I went the first two years, but after a close female friend who was my guest, was hit on excessively by a very drunk, very offensive manager, I've refused to go since. There was always one fellow who refused to go, but he's since died of a heart attack. I joked since that there has to be one in the office who refuses to go, so I'm taking Pete's place since he died.

As for the giving offense part...the family relations are strained due to my father's alcoholism for many years (he's what they call a "dry drunk" now, even though he's been dry for about 15 years). They are "cafeteria Catholics" who I'd be surprised if they give up meat on Fridays in Lent (which isn't required any longer, only suggested. Ash Wednesday and Good Friday are the only "required" fast days now.). If I did visit the parents (which I don't often do), I would eat whatever was put in front of me. No need to strain things more. I tried explaining our fasting rules to mom once over the phone and she just exploded, saying I'd refused to do such things under the pope and now I'm doing them?

But the friends who I might be visiting for Thanksgiving, I would probably just eat the regular holiday meal on Thanksgiving (which many Antiochians do anyhow, including my priest), but I would tell them about our Nativity Fast for the rest of the visit.

Thanks,
Theodora Elizabeth

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