We should become peasants.

[Logos]

Methodius, I am intrigued by your idea. I think it is interesting but the thing is few people, including some who have posted in this thread, would have great difficulty in giving up modern comforts. Frankly, the modern world is hostile to Orthodoxy and its way of life. To live a true Orthodox life, I think you have to get away from modern comfort. This is not an easy message for some to swallow. Have you ever heard of the Hutterites? They are cousins to the Amish and I think you would find them interesting. No religious group or community for that matter are immune from Satan. The problem is that the Amish are having their share of troubles. They are currently having problems among their young such as alcoholism. The Amish are decent people and I have nothing against them or for that matter many of the anabaptist groups. If anything, there is more value placed on family. I met an old woman once who said along the lines of how she missed the good ole days of no television when she was growing up. Instead of watching TV, they would sit around as a family and talk. That is something that is a rarity in today's world. Now, no one has a sit down meal anymore. We are all too distracted with world and its cares, that we neglect not only our own souls, but the souls of others. To put it bluntly, this world is going to hell in a handbasket. The Amish don't have problems with divorce. The divorce rate among Christians I believe is 50%. That is shocking considering we are speaking of Christians, and not those who are unbelievers. To find quality people who love God in this world is darn near impossible. I guess I rambled on here, but I think the idea does have some merit.

Did you ever consider that maybe your being Orthodox in the world will influence someone else to become Orthodox? and by isolating yourself out in the middle of no where you will not be fulfilling God's purpose?

I know that it may not seem like building a community like this would spread the Gospel and be a witness to the world, yet could we not say the same thing about monks and nuns, that they are withdrawing to nowhere and not fulfilling God's purpose? By the way, what is God's purpose for our lives? How do we know is God's purpose for our lives? To me this idea proposed by Methodius sounds creating a monastic community for families.

[Seraphim Reeves]

Labour is good...for the soul that is. It breaks the body, leaves one sore and tired. However, it also kills passions, and it makes one more grateful for what one does have (even for simple things.)

My occupation is one which involves long shifts and a great deal of physicality. I will say, that in recent times (and in past jobs that included similar demands) I've found this job, as annoying as it is, to have born some good fruit (ascetically speaking.)

Of course it's unpalitable. If the flesh had it's way, it'd be lazy and self indulgent. This is why there is no real monasticism where there is not some form of physical obedience (some form of labour.)

I know how easy it is to talk about being "spiritual", but without wanting to pay dues. I am the most guilty of all in this category - perhaps, precisely because of my guilt, I see the danger all the more clearly. It's easy to speak lofty words, but far from easy to live by them.

To have no respect of men before God.

To crucify the flesh.

To give God everything in your life.

To be martyrdom.

Those are nice sounding things, but not things we are "naturally" inclined towards. I think there is some value to a community free of many of the modern world's convieniences. While I agree it is not impossible to be faithful without foresaking all of the modern world's toys and technology, I do think these things can make the way more difficult.

Seraphim

[尼古拉前执事]

One thought is if the Amish can do it, so can we.

The Liudmilla brings one back to reality. Its easier when you are raised that way. Going from modernity of the Information age to that would be hard. Perhaps spiritually profitable, but definitely a struggle! Perhaps one that is too great for many living in today's world.

I read up on the Amish and it appears the youth problem is because they allow the children to do what they want to a degree between 16 and 18. This is for religious reasons because they get baptized as adults. So the kids experiment with alcohol and such and it has caused a serious problem for the Amish teens. Why? because they are not yet Christians according to Amish religious thought.

I do not think this would tend to be a problem in such an Orthodox community since drunkeness would not be tolerated and everyone would be baptized Christians already.

[Logos]

One thought is if the Amish can do it, so can we.

The Liudmilla brings one back to reality. Its easier when you are raised that way. Going from modernity of the Information age to that would be hard. Perhaps spiritually profitable, but definitely a struggle! Perhaps one that is too great for many living in today's world.

I read up on the Amish and it appears the youth problem is because they allow the children to do what they want to a degree between 16 and 18. This is for religious reasons because they get baptized as adults. So the kids experiment with alcohol and such and it has caused a serious problem for the Amish teens. Why? because they are not yet Christians according to Amish religious thought.

I do not think this would tend to be a problem in such an Orthodox community since drunkeness would not be tolerated and everyone would be baptized Christians already.

Thank you for the clarification. However, I don't like this precedent by allowing experimentation for teens letting young people experiment at those ages can have some serious ramifications. I mean what happens if they become addicted to alcohol and care more about a bottle of booze than what Christ did on the cross? Do you know if the Amish permit their teens to be sexually active?

[Logos]

By the way Nicholas, where did you find that information? I would interested in reading it.

[尼古拉前执事]

Yeah the experimentation seems bad. Between 16-18 after the boys do work they are pretty free. The parents just look the other way. I've read that it does happen, but if a girl gets pregnant there is a quick marriage (Amish often marry young anyway) but the problem they run into most is these kids becoming alcoholics or taking up smoking and getting addicted.

[尼古拉前执事]

Logos, I just found it Googling. I would use the Google Safe-Search engine at the portal, as otherwise some sick results come up but I rearched for Amish and then learning of this period where they have freedom I searched for Amish teens are read a few sites.